Triggering

[Pale Rider]

Why do I keep coming back when it's all so predictable?

Yup, there's a good boy, like I said, keep up the predictable work

No less predictable than yourself.

I think the answer is here. Moving right along…
I've grown oddly fascinated by F.. F…..'s continuing inability to post anything without trailing ellipses. Unless jowwy or shep have mentioned it as part of their remit, it seems to have gone unnoticed. Am I the only one who sees it? Is he doing it to provoke me and me alone? Am I going mad?

Been there, done that

You know who's there but should be here? Fellow harvester Randomnerd.

scary sounding non secateurs are the stock in trade of those spreading delusional beliefs

I'm harvesting this for my "Lovely typos" thread. Should it become monetised I'll send you a fiver. Ta

Ta.

Leaving aside that FishFright is an aficionado of such beliefs (I'd dig up receipts, but we'd enter rabbit holes within rabbit holes territory), it always saddens me to see talent go to waste – here defined as anything which benefits The Dark Side, cleverly disguised in orange and blue.

[a rabbit hole with a dog in it]

I bother way less getting involved with this forum because of you and the way you post.

Maybe if I blow this {lovingly handcrafted for another post} it'll get his attention:

Here boy, lots of room to romp. Fetch!

Unfortunately I think this dynamic – me here, everyone else elsewhere – works for me. I don't have to actually rub shoulders with the hoi polloi, who are only one step up from plebs.

Not every one of them has a range of states between them, surely.

Let’s just agree to disagree rather than divert the thread, shall we?

HOLE >

Happy to, in the same way that I would agree to disagree that the world is flat. [Helpful link added - Ed.]

Life isn't really that 'full' of binaries at all, it's generally far more complicated and nuanced than that. [Helpful link added - Ed.]

[Guardian link, regrettably back on topic]
Still a long way to go….

Well.
That wasn't predictable at all.

[Pale Rider]

Gender again. Sorry!

Graham Linehan (writer of Father Ted) has had his twitter ban revoked. Regardless of what you might think of his zeal for womens rights and LG rights in the face of Trans advocacy, he is posting a lot which is food for thought.

worth a read to see the most hated "TERF" side of the fence...

https://twitter.com/Glinner

Graham Linehan has been tweeting some really vile unhinged shoot ever since his account was reinstated. It's the ravings of a madman and says more about recent changes at twitter than it does about Linehan himself.

Examples please – NACA loves an embedded tweet, does it not? And you have the luxury of being in an unmoderated space. Or you could just provide links and suitable commentary, rather than this lazy effort.

[partial SNAP]

Trying to smear people with accusations of links to paedophilia is vile and unhinged. Going after the people from a fairly innocuous TV quiz show for no good reason is vile and unhinged.

Linehan is a nasty piece of work

Verily I say unto you, not for the first time dear lurker, transgender ideology turns people’s brains to mush.


disambiguation

Or at least there’s a small mushy part surrounded, as in the case of winjim, by decent gray matter.

[Kellie-Jay Keen] is a hard-right activist and a white nationalist. At least Linehan has a track record of something valuable to his credit, whatever you think of his monomania of recent years.

I would love to to be a part of any conversation to which theclaud is contributing, but this is the best I can do.

Examples please of KJK’s hard right activism. Getting airtime on Fox and GB News doesn’t count; nor does not vetting the security for her US tour for signs of wrongthink.

I'll try to keep an open mind about her, though will declare a bias in that I'm an admirer of someone so willing to put herself out there, and who serves up a cool example of how to deal with wrong-headed authority.

I have read that this is Linehan’s main, if not sole, source of income these days (getting cancelled in his line of work has certainly helped in that regard). Throwing his all into what can be called a crusade doesn’t deserve the put-down of "monomania". I will say that to follow all this in detail, you do have to devote a fair amount of mental space to it.

In any case, history will show that some not entirely well-rounded individuals have given society helpful shoves in the right, as in not wrong, direction.

Keen is a women's rights activist. There are a lot of feminists who disagree with her willingness to go on stuff like Tucker Carlson to spread her message, but she's hardly a hard right activist.

Wow she must think it's weird how there are grand wizards, anti-abortionists and blokes in Fred Perry polo shirts everywhere she turns up for an interview.

I had to look up the polo shirts. They don't appeal.

That Keen's message appeals to the far right is not surprising. I will admit that I first started reading about this topic thanks to Rod Dreher at The American Conservative, who attracted me precisely because I regard myself as progressive, yet don't want to live in a bubble. What I found was a comments policy which allowed for more wide ranging debate than the likes of The Guardian. (Alas, since a change of software, the comments were decimated. Also I don't often read Rod these days because I already know what he's going to write.)

The usual response is to say yes, we all agree the earth isn't flat. Not sure how much more there is to add to that other than I await evidence Keen talks the white supremacist talk.

I didn't read much of, nor contribute to, the CTC Gender Critical forum discussion

Once more with feeling: ta.



Seriously, I was all alone there. I can take care of myself, but I’ve got to ask – the ceiling if nobody else – why someone who had a lot to offer the debate didn’t wade in.

My working theory is this: AuroraSaab isn't blessed with what I would call a good sense of humour (unlike, for example, winjim). I would be surprised if she worked in an industry where creativity is prized. Both of these qualities come in handy on occasion. It's a shame, as we're in accord about so much on this topic. As Keen has discovered, you can't choose your fellow travellers on the road to reality.

[Simpler working theory: she wasn't a member of the forum and didn't want to be. Also, it's just as well you can't choose, as I'd have gone for someone funnier but probably less effective.]

Going after the people from a fairly innocuous TV quiz show for no good reason is vile and unhinged.

He didn't. I don't think he has an issue with them at all. What he took issue with was the programme allowing them to be presented as a Q+(?I think) couple, when they are just a straight couple. He felt that that was straight people effectively trying to devalue what it is to be gay or lesbian.

More of this please. Drilling down to specific issues.

I don't know if you are talking about someone specific in regards to linking them to paedophilia or just commenting on his reporting of crimes where the alleged offender is male but reported as 'she'. I wouldn't call that unhinged or vile.

It was very specific and absolutely abhorrent.

Good grief. I think we can all agree that abhorrent things are abhorrent. This isn’t getting us anywhere.

there are actually two jokes

1. I identify as a(n) [insert noun]
2. My pronouns are [insert words which are not pronouns]

That's it. Them's the jokes.

1. I identify as frustrated, an adjective
2. How'd I do?

[Pale Rider]

Gender again. Sorry!

One only has so much time to be setting people aright unawares: it's wise to choose a specialist subject. So here I continue to be. Not sorry.

It's possible to refer to Emily Bridges as 'she' and then discuss the unfairness in her competing in female categories.

It's also possible to refer to Bromptonaut as 'clueless', but that starts the discussion off on the wrong foot. In other words, some of us don't accept B's premise or E's preferred pronoun. (Think of it as breaking & entering the wrong sex class.) We happen to have facts on our side.

The whole point of using language like 'bigotry' and 'transphobic' is to shut down discussion. Noone wants to be thought to be unkind so they don't speak out even when they know what is being said is nonsense. It's how we have ended up where we are.

And this is the problem. Silencing one side of a discussion is never good or healthy. The zeal for "no platforming" at Universities is really quite abhorrent. They are supposed to be places to learn. You cannot learn if you only have one side of an argument.

Making us call Emily 'she' is effectively silencing us.

I find I'm sometimes accused of having an opinion when I really don't.

Someone inform winjim's likes, which apparently have a mind of their own. Also: as if.

However, to describe my former colleague Heather, or my son's friend who is going through transition as men would be bigotry.

To describe them as women would be misogyny. That doesn't seem to bother you though. I think you are choosing to be wilfully blind to the consequences that result from saying 'men can be women' because you don't want to seem unkind to your friends. So you'll do whatever mental and linguistic gymnastics it takes to avoid that. And when it comes to stuff like prisons you'll put your head in the sand and say 'Not my problem'.

This is simply chucking women under the bus so you can feel good about yourself.

One almost feels sorry for Bromptonaut.

If this were Twitter, he'd have blocked her by now.

Clueless, meet steamroller.

…some Trans Women are inherently misogynistic in their view of women and how to live like a women. Dressing to look like a porn star for example, bilge like "Now that I'm living as a woman I cry a lot more". There is often a perception of "what a woman is" which does not gel with the lived experience of women. Some Trans Women are closer to David Walliams "I'm a lady" than the idea of being an actual woman.

I have met cis women that match those descriptions but the only trans woman I currently know is nothing like them. A small statistical sample, but it still makes me wonder about the relevance of your caricature.

Tactical error by icowden, followed by what I'm going to go ahead and call a category error by newfhouse. With any luck, AS will stop back to explain about 'cis'. Meanwhile…

we all want to be kind but none of us want to think about what that kindness costs others.

Bringing it all back home.

The bottom line is it's their forum and their rules.

That's not a bottom line - what if their rules were illegal?

Let's not talk about rules. Let's talk about feelings.

I’d like to think we can all agree that there is an infinitely large range of ways to live as a woman...

Anyone who truly likes to think wouldn't think that. There is, of course, only one way to "live as a woman": to be one.

…I'm not going to allow myself to get pulled into having this argument because the point I'm making is that really I don't have to.

So, pointless?

Here's one expert. Unfortunately there is a lot of ideological capture around this issue and people and institutions who should be talking common sense are either ignoring the science or afraid to speak out.

Is that the same person who claims that cycle lanes increase pollution?

Misses "gotcha" by a country mile.

your Gish-galloping through every thread on the topic makes you a wearisome opponent and seldom illuminates anything. I'll remind you that the current thread started with me introducing an alternative way of framing the subject which you completely refused to engage with, and here you are, innumerable thread acres later, with the same fear-mongering and tedious appeals to moustachioed authority dressed up as feminist debate.

The Gish Gallop is a rhetorical technique in which a person in a debate attempts to overwhelm their opponent by providing an excessive number of arguments with no regard for the accuracy or strength of those arguments.

No.

As for the rest, I'm just going to cover my eyes and say that friends can respectfully disagree.

Ha. I've just gone back and read my first contribution to this thread. I stand by it, especially the last sentence.

The one about being silly? You mean almost everything recent has been a piss take? Very well. This one’s for you anyway.

Sometimes it’s useful to be clear and not delude folk.

Climate Crisis: Are we doing enough?

Not one of my drinking pals had heard of Andrew Tait.

Strangely, despite not having the faintest idea who he is, none of them (including myself) had any sympathy with his views.

And that right there is the problem.

All this stuff is going on, but it's ignored and diminished as unimportant.
In the hope that it all just magically goes away by itself.

You can say that again.

It's you that needs help - with English comprehension.

Pro tip: if you're going to be condescending, be properly superior. You've got a long way to go.

How can I put this more plainly to mudsticks et al: you need these guys, or it becomes a circle jerk. Unless a circle jerk is your comfort zone...?

I agree the unhealthy spectrum covered by social media crosses traditional political boundaries. The porn stuff predates social media, but cancel culture and dissemination of fake news on such a large scale is a more recent phenomenon, although of course ultimately there is nothing new under the sun. (Or Sun!)

Tell me more about this 'cancel culture,' nasty views are all over the interwebs, and elsewhere.

Do you think the likes of Tate should be allowed to carry on spreading their message of hate unchecked.
In the name of 'free speech'??

I wonder what the best cure for 'hate' is. Could it be curbs on free speech, overseen by an enlightened class, which only bottles it up, creating volcanos like Trump? Or could it be - gasp - more free speech to counteract it? Answers on an old-fashioned postcard.

[Pale Rider]

Ludic*

I depend upon a certain amount of clickage or this doesn't work.

For fun:

For fans:

For hardcore lurkers:

[close]

Good news @shep, you have a secret admirer

Wtf is going on there?

WTF?

I think shep is necessary for a healthy ecosystem, which isn't quite the same as whispering sweet nothings across the fora.

Wouldn't have expected much more than a que carajo from either, though effeff does have a sense of humour which blooms from time to time amongst the garden of Guardian links.

I don't quite get it…

Mudsticks interests me (sort of – nice touch) both as part of the experiment and as someone always potentially worth reading, even as she disappoints me on most subjects not having to do with farming.



I'd love to see her review Joel Salatin's book.

If this chap finds us so fascinating 🧐
Or interesting enough, at least to chat about, why does he not just chat to us.

Where's the fun in that?

POTD.

NACA and NACF are twinned, sort of. You people in your cell, me in mine. Perhaps we can tap out messages? Unfortunately I can't find the clip I want for that, so here's this instead, dedicated to Ian H.

I did try breaking back into CC a few weeks ago. Thwarted by a dull-witted mod (story of my life). It would've been easy as hell to get lost in the crowd, but where's the hwyl in that?



If anybody's still listening, send me a sign: start a topic about NACF. You could call it NACFWTF. It's on my meta bucket list, along with making a video with Bob Dylan.

Or, just bump my bunny thread. If you're feeling especially generous on this 13th day of Christmas, nominate Chompsky moderator of NACA in absentia.

Year of the wabbit


G'bye {water} tiger

* For archive sites which don't recognise spoilers: For fun. For fans. For hardcore lurkers.



The judges will also accept Luddite.

over and over and over

I don't like using videos more than once or twice, but it happens. 'Quiet ones' is up to about 4x now I think. Just so you know I know, and am judging myself.

[close]

[Pale Rider]

What a relief to post about something else!



House Rabbit

Just catching up on this thread and saw that someone mentioned litter trays. If you buy them at Pets at Home they are about £7. But if you go to Wilkinsons you can get seed trays that are actually heavier and often bigger for £3 - the Black Premium Gravel Tray. The sides aren't very high so no so good if you have a rabbit that likes to wee up walls (unneutered ones do sometimes), but they aren't on most litter trays anyway. We have a few of these and they are pretty much unchewable and I think our bunny finds them better to sit in because they are slightly textured as opposed to shiny plastic.

https://www.wilko.com/en-uk/wilko-black-premium-gravel-tray-52cm/p/0099388

Another thumbs up for Wilko gravel trays, but note they are now £4

"The extra quid covers my endorsement fee."



My co-besotted came across this old thread the other day. (Note that Chompsky, like me, does not limit himself to just the one name.) I realise this will probably be about as exciting for you poor non-rabbit-people as someone showing snaps of their DNA carriers. To us it was thrilling, edge-of-your-seat stuff: his very first tour of our living room, almost 7 years ago. Clearly some work still needed to be done by health & safety.

Uncharted territory for all of us.



Cartoons we need em

Love the "Rod N. Cohn" on the door.

animated .gif alert

[close]

Don't know how familiar you'd be with the comics he's critiquing, but I bet you'd like this CC.

I remember when CycleChat was a tiny, quiet little place before the deluge from BikeRadar. I even tut-tutted Sean about his recruitment methods (he PM'd people, if memory serves). Before long CC became the official alternative to ACF. Now here we are, 17 years later, a once thriving forum ancient, misunderstood history, me looking in fondly on a thread I can't touch except by proxy (seriously, thanks). Funny old world.

[Pale Rider]

Gender again. Sorry!
Ah, a juggernaut of reason has arrived from across from the road, fresh from the kill after I'd already been buried by the mods. What bravery. *he must've sensed more blood in the form of AuroraSaab, who has long carried most of the weight of rationality on this topic.

It's the standard opening of his type:

So where do trans women go to the toilet now? Only asking because I've never seen one in the gents. Do they use the ladies, and if they do, is there anyone checking their genitals on the way in?

Note that he anticipates the work of Bromptonaut, content that what he sees, or rather fails to see, is the standard for womankind.

Unless there's a gatekeeper to have a look/see they use female facilities for the most part undetected.

If he wanted to once again safely preach to the choir, he's come to the right place.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

AS's posting style is to not engage with the points being made, drag the conversation off sideways and then, when people make efforts to not allow her to set the agenda, argue that they aren't answering specific questions.

Winjim et al appear to inhabit a parallel universe, at least when it comes to this subject. As it happens, just saying something doesn’t

[nothing worth losing one's composure over]

Oh fark off.

Points off for losing composure. The judges would've been slightly more lenient with the use of 'frak' or 'fuck', though the latter is apparently unavailable.

I'm generally supportive of the trans community, and I'm no fan of culture wars 'moral panic'

That catechism once again out of the way,

However it's definitely the case that many women have very good reasons for wanting their own safe spaces. And those reasons and even the feelings surrounding those issues shouldn't be dismissed as irrelevant, nor shouted down with 'show me the stats'.

hallelujah.

I needn't re-rehearse arguments that those of us on the side of dare I say truth (even plucked from the mouths of believers in a more traditional religion)

There really is a very simple solution to the whole problem. It starts with the word truth.

have long since made; for tiring us out through endless repetition in the vain hope that a true respect for dialogue lurks behind the facade is the primary mode of attack of the multitools of the world. I can only wish AS, whose exasperation has been made even more visible by bold formatting, well.


Selfie

* I’m going with the balance of probability: he’s too good at mansplaining to be a she. If I’m wrong, I'm happy to issue a correction.

[Pale Rider]

If anybody's still listening, send me a sign: start a topic about NACF.

This thread does not exist, cheers Jim.

That'll do.

Wrong Jim.

…

F.. F….., is that you? No, it's Salty seadog, sporting an avatar I've always been fond of. I assume it was hand drawn, but did an image search anyway. Let's file this one for future reference.

Who cares? If this forum is gonna become a troll trolling exercise then I'm leaving and he can farking well win. The place is self referential enough as it is.

This spoiler isn't going to click itself

Give me enough time and every dam word will be a link.

[close]

Sorry, the requested page or resource could not be found.

Disappeared through the looking glass?

Kum bay ya, my Lord, kum bay ya …

"Come by here": an entreaty to the divine. Sorry to disappoint.

<makes mental note to venture over to nacf to enjoy Sam's take on this>

B-side

Put the whole thread on ignore.

Voice activated, apparently.

[Suitably devastating quote from USS Callister episode of Black Mirror.]

Can't escape reality.

How's that ignore function working out?

Endless dark void: been there, done that.

Next.

Next.

Ĉu la angla estas via gepatra lingvo?

Veb.

*pops into NACA for a rare nosey around*

*Sees @jowwy up to his usual tricks*

*Heads off to deal with much more mature 7 year olds*

Next.

We could be at this a while…

If you're new to NACF, note that I often edit posts to retrofit new replies and accommodate new trains

of thought. Eventually it'll settle down.

It's my process.

[close]

[Pale Rider]

Bender again. Sorry!

I apologise unreservedly for the typographical error.

Our antagonist is our helper.

You really aren't very good at this are you.

It should now be clear to even the most avid men's rights activist that AuraraSaab outclasses her latest opponent by several magnitudes of competence in this debate.

Though my side has the luxury of being right, believe it or not I welcome solid rebuttal to AS. Were she and he back at Mumsnet, where I have to think she honed her skills* and he has ventured at the very least to seethe, most of her points would be unremarkable. Not many have her stamina outside that arena, which despite its reputation is a harsh environment for lovers of free speech, with many a deletion that leaves thoughtful heads itching.

Multifool, who first came to my attention at Cycling UK's rigged game (though it's possible we've met before, opposites attracting as they do), is not completely without talent in the wordsmithing dept. It's just a shame he has so little [take your pick: integrity, factual material, actual appreciation of nuance] to work with.

I'll take it under advisement.

Also came up in that search, providentially. He kept losing me at "she", but I held on anyway.

Now I'm asking to to edit where you made the same erroneous claims in prior posts,

Technical point: We cannot edit or delete previous posts on this forum, beyond a short time (an hour I believe).

"Bender" really was a typo – the G and the B are catty-corner neighbours. It's not a slur I grew up with (that would be "fag", which as an American didn't mean cigarette). I nearly corrected it, but the Futurama tie-in was irresistible, the suicide booth another bit of serendipity.

My new nickname for multitool is also beneath me, not to mention unnecessary. When abuse was mentioned the other day, it was a very short trip down a synapse to self-abuse.

One step at a time.

Blimey.
We're back at Wimbledon 2001, Pete Sampras in his prime, the king of Centre Court, expected to swat aside a callow Swiss teenager by the name of Roger Federer. But hang on, what are we seeing?

Ball gag boy.



(Gotta watch the whole thing - it's not long. Followed by this, if you're still at leisure.)

Truth emerges more readily from error than from confusion.

Dear God. I despair.

Empathy at last.

* I stand corrected and very surprised.

[Pale Rider]

Let's rewind back to this short exchange:

AuroraSaab: Genuine question though, Ian. I'm going to assume you're a heterosexual. Would you date a transwoman? Fair enough if you think it's a private matter and don't wish to answer.

Ian H: There are limits to what I'll discuss on an open forum.

AuroraSaab: No problem. I was just trying to get my head around the 'sometimes they're in the male category, sometimes they're in the female, depending on context' thing.

multitool:


shep: Yes or No would do, not really a discussion.

Bromptonaut: I guess the answer could be less Yes/No and more along the line of it's complicated.

I'd love to see the thought processes of these guys as they grapple with the real life implications of this "complicated" ideology and try to come out of it looking good. There must be a flowchart. While I search for or make one, here's a handy response from earlier.

I've come around. If you say trans women are women, and you're a heterosexual man lookin’ for love,

trans women belong in your dating pool. Same goes for women who are reactionary enough to have a predisposition to coupling exclusively with those with male [sic] anatomy. Gay guys and lesbians don't get a pass either, if they're true believers.

While it's none of my business whom you invite under the sheets, cognitive dissonance is a turn-off.

Your only out is to admit that you are in fact transphobic as defined by the social media powers that be.

It took the hagiographer of instagram influencer Alok Vaid-Mennon to make me see the error of my ways. As India Willoughby put it way back in the mists of 2018, "all this superficial stuff that you are a woman and all that sounds great and is the right thing to say. But it makes no difference if people don't believe it - that's the problem."

Don't be the problem: be the solution.

- BREAKING -

[Nonsense on stilts]



And now, I'm giving up with you too.

[Pale Rider]

The NACA Music, Art & General Creativity Thread
I see a knob, drawn and quartered. Speaking of which…

Gender again

You realise you are dismissing the views of the majority of women, don't you?

Turns out having his asinus delivered to him by AS wasn't punishment enough.

I think @multitool is saying that we should try it first, collect data on the number of rapes and assaults, and then consider doing something about it. It's very important that women get attacked first so that we can make sure we protect them afterwards.

POTD

Are they? I thought they were suggesting we should look for evidence where it already exists.

Have a closer look at Ian's painting.

NSFW

Unless you're the referee.



Or are a curator at The Tate.

[close]

I don't discount the fears of anybody. But I do want to know if those fears are justified. Do you?

Interesting tactic: telling people what they're allowed to fear (because if it isn't "justified" it's presumably bigoted or silly). Not sure why that doesn't work the other way around, but that's translogic for you.

quick trip to Mumsnet & back

To not feel safe in changing rooms

What does the data show? Not what you have experienced or what friends have. But the actual number of times this happens in a year? You can only really judge whether an emotion is reasonable based on how realistic the threat is. If it is 1% that is one thing, if it is 80% that is another.

And also to counter your mansplaining - do you think that every time a woman is flashed at, groped, watched, been cat-called, had a heavy-breathing man sit right near her fondling his thigh she reports it and it becomes 'data'?

You're dreaming. Women's experiences of men's violence and unwanted attention are so much part of the wallpaper of our lives to be invisible - fuck - rape is practically legal the few times it is reported and a man is charged let alone cases that make it to court and those deemed to have sufficient evidence to succeed.

[close]

Imagine for instance that in a parallel world there was in existence another type of human.. Not man or woman, as such, but a bit more like a genderless, or even all gendered human-bear, still very human, a lot of the time just fine, very nice even, they are part of normal society, bear-people have relationships with either sex of non bear people, and most of the time things are fine...

Scottish Self ID is being misrepresented as allowing men to change on a whim purely for the purposes of perving. It doesn't. It just reduces the time from 2 years to 3 months. It's still a substantial and significant legal undertaking on the part of the man who wishes to become regarded as a woman in law.

Possibly the first evidence that he hasn't swallowed every drop of Stonewall Kool-Aid.

Look, you are right, it's a hard thing to discuss...

Disingenuous, abusive, deeply unpleasant character cosplays at being reasonable.

Some people are worthy interlocutors. Some aren't.

Change of avatar noted. I liked him in What's Eating Gilbert Grape.

looks like I have found a second person for my mute button!

Whatever you do,

never announce that you’re leaving the discussion. [Muting: same deal.] This cannot be stressed enough. If you want to go, just go. Some warriors are amazed this is even an option.