Nothing is as simple as it may appear... it is difficult, nigh impossible, to second-guess the correct response to any given situation.
You can't please all of the people all of the time, but people need to be less confrontational and more accepting.
We're living rent free in their heads, as I think the kids are saying these days. - What do we think so far (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/what-do-we-think-so-far.70/page-5#post-3885)
I think we should have a referendum about re-joining CC.A post which transcends likes
Let's face it, it's pretty dull, (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/what-do-we-think-so-far.70/page-2#post-3736) and with one or two notable exceptions we've lost the people from whom it was possible occasionally to learn something interesting. Shep's favourite cuss words? How many times the word hypocrite can be levered into a single post? Who wants to know, frankly?
And half the fun was the meta-narrative; seeing how close you could sail to the Byzantine moderation red lines without triggering a reaction. It's become a fruit machine that costs nothing to play and never pays out.
I'm a radical feminist, for sure.
But not trans exclusionary
Simply put them on ignore. (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/what-do-we-think-so-far.70/page-6#post-4024)
Bless them, they are not terribly bright. (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/what-do-we-think-so-far.70/page-8#post-4287)
It's all wearing dreadfully thin (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/political-language-what-helps-what-doesnt.64/page-11#post-4303)
Far too much reading! (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/political-language-what-helps-what-doesnt.64/page-11#post-4302)
We are living on borrowed time until someone really tries to disrupt it. (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/what-do-we-think-so-far.70/page-5#post-3937)
Dull, dull, dull. (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/political-language-what-helps-what-doesnt.64/page-12#post-4330)
Snipe, snipe, snipe. (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/political-language-what-helps-what-doesnt.64/page-11#post-4299)
Yawn. (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/political-language-what-helps-what-doesnt.64/page-12#post-4314)
My posts are what they are (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/political-language-what-helps-what-doesnt.64/page-14#post-4407)
Tendentious, misogynistic, self-aggrandising blather, mainly. And textbook DARVO. I guess the latter is what makes @swansonj consider you interesting as a case study of some kind.
Among the small mindedness are stupid gifs designed to ridicule. (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/oh-no-brexit-not-going-quite-as-well-as-hoped.34/page-42#post-4610)
etc.
etc.
The very existence of this forum is predicated on nobody knowing or understanding the meaning of the word 'politics'.
Honestly, anything would be an improvement.
I'd love to know what all you people on here do on a daily basis that I don't to help these I appear to show lack of empathy to.
It was the downward, asymmetrical curve of Paterson's cake-hole (and I use the term advisedly) that nagged at me
(https://i.imgur.com/4fhFEdU.jpg)
until I remembered Jabba's retirement from the cruel world of inter-galactic Crime Lordship
(https://i.imgur.com/A4At3Sb.jpg)
The trouble with companies like Amazon is they thrive on a non-competitive service. They may start off offering a useful service, but once they get big they use their strength to buy up competition and freeze newcomers out of the ability to compete. The rates and tax structure that high street shops have to work within is hugely and unfairly more onerous than Amazon and other international online sellers, who have the ability to set up their structures/offices and HQs to avoid anything like a comparitive level of taxation.
It is only the weakness of our governments, and a cosy relationship between top politicians and owners/executives of internet behemoths, that allows this situation to flourish and prosper even more. So continue to use Amazon for whatever reasons you choose, but do not pretend that fairness of competitiveness is anything to do with it.
Most of us (and I include both myself and yourself in that, though based on different pieces of evidence) have racist biases and assumptions. Which does make it a bit of a stretch to conclude that a person's views on immigration are ever completely divorced from their views on race.
And, specifically, racists generally do want stricter controls on immigration. If someone who is trying to be non-racist finds themselves in the same camp as pretty well every racist going, they might question whether that is indeed the right camp to be in.
(That's a principle I apply to myself in a different area, where my thoughts on transgender issues put me in the same camp as some pretty nasty people, and I therefore ask myself whether the reasons I articulate to myself for having those thoughts are actually honest and whether that is the right set of thoughts to hold.)
Coke head and dirty old man Keith Vaz followed by this creature.
A striking choice of terminology.
Man is a political animal.
Wish me luck, or wish me trouble..
Depending on your pov
Quote from: fozy tornipBefore you all post your subscriptions to spen's online course in temperate forum etiquette, consider that "bile spurting prick", no less, was his measured response to someone who demurred mildly to the nationalistic, weaponised, toxic brew of mawkish sentimentality and aggressive prescriptiveness that is GB Remembrance.
I suppose you can forgive a lawyer for ignorance of biology.
If you have male parts, you're male.
If you have female parts, you're female.
It is that simple.
As a point of honour I've challenged myself to bait you to a similar pitch of choleric patriotic incontinence this remembrance week.
The game's afoot.
Do you know anywho who identifies as non-binary? Do you see how that choice impacts their day-to-day life and is it positive (creating informative discourse about gender and identity) or negative (people willfully refusing to accept their choice and "labelling" them anyway)?
Today's teenagers seem much more informed, open and accepting.
Might as well get this out of the way: I'll likely be agreeing with whatever would be in this quote box.
I have heard it said (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/non-binary-what-do-you-understand-it-to-mean.86/#post-5225) that one is a mental health issue whilst the other is a lifestyle choice...
Quote from: AuroraSaabWomen can't opt out of their oppression, but men can opt in if they fancy it:
(https://i.imgur.com/lFPBK0R.jpg)
To be fair, that's just upselling a Balaclava...
The one time I was working with somebody undergoing male/female transition the women were fine about it. It was a bloke who got his pants in a knot.
We're encouraged to have our preferred pronouns in our profile even when they're exactly what you'd expect.
The point of declaring pronouns is literally to ask people to treat you (and by implication everyone else) as a gender.
What happens when 'Mr 6'1", covered in tat's and scars' is feeling 'Feminine' and fancies trying a twin set on in the Ladies changing rooms at M&S, do the Women have to put up with him strutting round like something out of the rocky Horror show or can they expect him to respect their feelings?
If this forum is going to survive, unmoderated, I think a little more respect for other people's feelings might be called for all round. The impression your post leaves with me is that you have consciously decided to be gratuitously offensive to another forum member.
Who's appointed you (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/non-binary-what-do-you-understand-it-to-mean.86/page-4#post-5365) the Forum Transgender officer then?
You know what? F*ck you, Badly.* I've taken the liberty of removing the other asterisks. The only swear word on my site is En*gma.
I do my best to respect the attitudes and feelings of everyone, but the way you present on this forum is just fucked up.
And yeah, that's rude. I know it is. But I don't care.
You've literally insulted how I feel about myself.
So again, fuck you, badly.
All this started with non-binary so nothing to do with transgender people, just people who feel they can be either depending on what mood they're in.
That really isn't how being non-binary works.
If I thought there was any point in trying to explain it further I would, but there clearly isn't.
As they seem to be converging it may be time to merge this thread (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/master%E2%80%A6.84/page-4#post-5391) with the one running on "Non-Binary…."
I've not really explained myself well here. (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/non-binary-what-do-you-understand-it-to-mean.86/page-6#post-5456)
Oh, wonder!Damn all explanatory rhymes!
How many goodly creatures are there here!
How beauteous mankind is! O brave new world,
That has such people in ’t!
And yet, without some unlikely Steppenwolfian late life re-birth some of us are condemned to be onlookers, like Larkin:
I see a girl dragged by the wrists
Across a dazzling field of snow…
it is much easier to see everything in life as a binary choice, than to admit there might be shades of grey, if you'll excuse the mixed metaphor
injecting intellectual rigour (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/non-binary-what-do-you-understand-it-to-mean.86/page-10#post-5595)
I'm not trying to enlist you in a culture war. Too often this is framed as a trans rights issue when it's a women's rights issue. It only ends up being about toilets and sport because they are things people can relate to. We've all used public loos or watched the Olympics. Not many of us will end up in prison or in domestic violence refuges.
while you are narrowly and technically correct [that the immutability of sex is a matter of scientific fact] - and I have never disputed it - there still needs to be an accommodation of feelings. I accept that doing so will cause conflict and that this needs management and mitigation, but the alternative will cause pain too.
You do write some rubbish sometimes.
You do write some rubbish sometimes.
Being unmoderated – uncensored* – is the most interesting thing about the place.
We do accommodate beliefs about gender identity though. We accommodate it in law by allowing people to change their passport for example, and gender reassignment is a protected characteristic in the Equality Act.
Most of the time your sex doesn't matter, but there are times when it does. In those situations I think harm is caused to women and girls when gender identity is allowed to trump material sex.
The reason women's right to single sex spaces, and women's rights in general, have to be enshrined in law is because without legal status none of those things would have come to pass in the first place. Those rights were not given freely; they were fought for. And without legal status being maintained today, these rights will be lost.
It does matter how people are treated, but it sounds like it's women who are the only ones being asked to make significant concessions.
QuoteWe do accommodate beliefs about gender identity though. We accommodate it in law by allowing people to change their passport for example, and gender reassignment is a protected characteristic in the Equality Act.
Can I ask frankly - would you roll those two protections back?
What things in this thread are 'made up'?
Where to even start?
Is there (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/non-binary-what-do-you-understand-it-to-mean.86/page-12#post-5760) any evidence that, in communal female changing rooms, trans women who haven’t had surgery stroll about naked showing their penises to all and sundry?
it's offensive to describe all transwomen as somehow male bodied
@theclaud, who is your current avatar? (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/who-cares.35/page-19#post-5693)
Mieke Bal, looking like an oil painting.
FFS (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/non-binary-what-do-you-understand-it-to-mean.86/page-13#post-5781)
Just a final comment (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/non-binary-what-do-you-understand-it-to-mean.86/page-13#post-5804) from me on the "definition of sex" issue….
Isn’t the more important (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/non-binary-what-do-you-understand-it-to-mean.86/page-13#post-5825) argument about the extent of the reasonable accommodations?
Quote from: swansonjQuoteQuote from: AuroraSaabThe point is that sex is binary and the existence of people with disorders of sexual development, which are rare, do not prove that sex is a spectrum. Similarly, the fact that children are very occasionally born with only one leg does not mean we are not a race of bi peds.Quote from: swansonjMy perspective is that it's a human trait - I would say weakness - to want to fit everything into neat categories. But the universe ain't like that
The nesting instinct is strong.
I think (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/non-binary-what-do-you-understand-it-to-mean.86/page-14#post-5848) the world is a material place and things actually fall into meaningful categories pretty easily. The nature of a category is that it includes some things and excludes others. You could argue whether a tomato is a vegetable I suppose, but I think the male/female divide is easier to discern.
You could argue that it's not helpful to put things in categories, but in the case of the sex binary it's very important to acknowledge that the category of female is different to the category of male because women are oppressed on the basis of being in the female category. Changing the meaning of words won't change that. Female oppression won't stop simply because we include men in the female sex category. In fact, including them is just further oppression.
Is (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/non-binary-what-do-you-understand-it-to-mean.86/page-14#post-5850) the average trans woman more or less oppressed than the average female woman (to use an inelegant phrase)?
Quote from: theclaudMeanwhile, it doesn't seem to cross your mind that most women prisoners, and a substantial proportion of men, shouldn't be inside at all.
There are a lot more men and women who should be in prison but aren't.
qigong chimp -
Has the rise (if there is one) in identity politics (if such it is) anything to do with our broader disempowerment under late capitalism?
First Known Use of member
14th century, in the meaning defined at sense 1
History and Etymology for member
Middle English membre, from Anglo-French, from Latin membrum; akin to Goth mimz flesh, Greek mēros thigh
It would certainly appear (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/who-cares.35/page-20#post-5990) that modern attempts to obliterate all distinctions aren't having much of an effect, at least yet. Such attempts won't survive first year medical school!
This fascinating take (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/poppy-day.91/) on Remembrance Sunday from the Papau New Guinea Daily Courier just landed on my desk.
Is that from a @fozy tornip Greatest Hits collection?
Wear a poppy, or don't.
Go to a memorial, or don't.
Like so much in life, let others crack on with whatever they're into, as long as it's not hurting anyone else.
FWIW: I don't; didn't; and I think the near fetishisation of poppy wearing is pretty pathetic.
Says the man/woman... Which one were you today?
Thank god that people like you are in the minority.
#clownworld
What does your Daughter think of Daddy dressing like Momma on your 'feminine ' days?
Fab de-rail by the way folks.
Best. Tangent. Ever.
Wear your poppy with Pride.
Quote from: matticusLove it! (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/poppy-day.91/page-3#post-5965) (I think we're ALL glad you read the Mirror, Jim)
Probably useful to include the context, makes an even better story IMO:
"World War 2 soldiers manned anti-aircraft guns in full DRAG after they were scrambled during panto photo shoot"
Is it not more fun to think they were mincing around in drag all the time just for the hell of it?
World's lamest confession (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/everyday-sexism%E2%80%A6.90/#post-5882)
And what a poor World it's becoming then, I just hope future generations will be grateful when they're* scared to have a laugh at work, well done.
theclaud: I'm worried. (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/everyday-sexism%E2%80%A6.90/page-2#post-6022) I think Shep is stuck in a site office with Mick Hucknall and this is a coded cry for help.
newfhouse: TC wins the internet today
[I can go as far as POTD]
Pale Rider: I think you are stuck in the 80s. Get with the programme, it should be Ed Sheeran.
newfhouse: Whoosh…
it's always been grimly amusing to watch
Filthy capitalist that I am, my retirement plan is to sell our home in London and buy somewhere smaller in a cheaper part of the country
I've just got a 2 month ban (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/what-do-we-think-so-far.70/page-10#post-6562)
Even the dumbest mod ought to be able to decide what is NACA and what isn't.
If they can't, they really shouldn't be doing the 'job', although as with all volunteer positions imposing performance standards is difficult.
Given the apparently vast amount of work they've been seen saved by not having to moderate this place, keeping an eye out (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/what-do-we-think-so-far.70/page-10#post-6581) for and closing news threads over there cannot be at all onerous.
more members and especially different posters would be welcome. (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/what-do-we-think-so-far.70/page-9#post-6521)
It all gets a bit tedious after a while. (https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/blink.gif) (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/what-is-the-point-of-prison.89/page-10#post-6561)
Quote from: MilzyThey voted to take away rights, opportunities settlement and travel away from their children and grandchildren. They voted to take away the cheap financial security they benefitted from away from their families. They voted to take away workers and environmental protections from their families. They voted to make food and goods more expensive and to make our domestic products less competitive.
And the the reason they voted to put barriers to trade and creative tariffs was because they are thick or just plain racists.
No other reason. Unfortunately they won’t have as long to suffer the consequences as the rest of us let alone their grandchildren.
Well as this seems to be a thread for diverse opinion (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/oh-no-brexit-not-going-quite-as-well-as-hoped.34/page-55#post-9147) I'd better weigh in here.
If the EU ever was an opportunity for social democratic betterment it went beyond that remit. The balance of power and influence between France (broadly socialist in effect) and Germany (broadly corporate capitalist) changed radically in this century. Germany is now gruner and France doigtier, a number of new member states (Hungary, Bulgaria, Poland) are distinctly right wing repressive, and the focus has changed to playing the superpower economic block game, I reckon.
Whatever 'cheap financial security' may be I have little direct experience of it. I suspect it is a middle class perk. I am not a big fan of benefits from an essentially corporate culture that buys off real dissent while promoting consumerism. I've met people who have come here from Romania to pick tulips for crap pay living in a tent in February in Scotland. Give me a caravan and the minimum wage and I will do this, though I'd prefer onions in September. The car industry has suffered from more and complex tariffs - let it! What an island needs as a bottom line is to grow enough food to feed itself. This was unlikely within EU agricultural norms. Using cheap EU labour for farming was downright exploitation. Food should be more expensive because it should be be grown and harvested sustainably by people with decent living conditions.
The only way to get this is for workers to fight for it. The key to environmental change is for people and communities to value this so much that we will go without cheap energy and build green alternatives. Legislation is the icing on the cake. We have to start local.
Is the EU funding climate change mitigation in frontline developing world communities? This would be my next priority.Quote from: newfhouseBased on this I think we probably agree on more than we disagree. But...
Is it more or less likely that we will see the progress we wish for now that we have reduced our ability to influence trade and agriculture policy?
Trying to exert that influence in the milieu of corporate lobbying is getting dragged into a realpolitik that is the real problem, is my take on it.
I read it as an encouraging marker of the socially mobile, meritocratic land of opportunity we've become that quite literally anybody who went to Eton can become Prime Minister.
This is a good NACA exemplar post. If you're new here, this is the sort of thing to crib your posts from.
Start with a flippant remark that COULD indicate a lack of passion, spunk, or readiness for the fight:Quote from: Xipe TotecI can, at least, take a little solace from the fact I'm only here for the lols.
(https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/sad.gif)
BUT NO! The flippancy is overcome by some good stuff:Quote from: Xipe TotecSo far those of a right-leaning perspective seem completely happy to offer absolutely no positives, no justifications, no benefits, and no attempt to suggest any long-term beneficial outcomes to the policies and actions of the UK government they blindly support - just a constant stream of carping, abuse and pearl-clutching in any topic that dares to question their exalted lords and masters. Plus a metric f*ckton of smug sneering, putdowns and vitriol directed at anyone who dares point out the numerous actual and verifiable negative consequences of the actions and 'policies' of the owners of the boots they lick.
THAT's more like it - get stuck in! (https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/boxing.gif)
Quote from: fozy tornipHenceforth anyone trying to post a funny thing must run their effort past me for approval prior to letting it into the world. It's for your own protection.
As self appointed arbiter (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/yet-more-tory-sleaze%E2%80%A6.106/page-28#post-9332) of all things I think you'll find the position already filled.
if not oversubscribed....
shep: If I wanted to go on Twitter (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/yet-more-tory-sleaze%E2%80%A6.106/page-28#post-9341) I would open an account, have you nothing to say for yourselves? Why the constant links?
LCpl Boiled Egg: Let me guess. No-one you know is on Twitter and anyway, you don't give a shoot?
shep: Dunno, they might be but I'm not, so not interested in some other person's opinion on things.
newfhouse: Who knew?
Me: The internet is there so you might as well use it.
Me: Why not aspire to being more than a conduit for other people's opinions you happen to share?
Me: That takes time! Time that could be spent racing along to the next thing I have to react to!
Adam4868: (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/yet-more-tory-sleaze%E2%80%A6.106/page-30#post-9418) Are you in anyway suprised that they're taking the piss out of you ?
shep: Me? What makes you think for one minute I take anything that the Government does personally?
qigong chimp: Because you’re a person?
shep: Perhaps you've a higher opinion of yourself than I do.
[link to Tory pledges, whatever]
Now whether these things ever happen is another matter but they sounded good to me.
It's important to be earnest (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/yet-more-tory-sleaze%E2%80%A6.106/page-32#post-9451)
Quote from: shep(https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/wacko.gif)
This may not be the thread (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/censorship-is-a-sign-of-right-wing-supremacy-particularly-when-exercised-by-the-left-discuss.128/#post-9949) for you, shep, so why not take your chewy toy out into the garden?
The qualification, "a former student activist (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/chile.130/#post-10033)" is added to his name after every mention on the BBC. Why?
Quote for NACA members: "staying in the comfort zone of speaking only with those who think the same as you can be satisfying, but it does not help make change."
Quote from: Pale RiderYou are largely full of sh*t
But it doesn't bother me one bit
Could this be the beginning (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/discussion-of-range-rover-woman-being-charged-as-formerly-seen-on-cc.127/page-5#post-10031) of a Pale Rider Ode to TheClaud or something. A few iambic pentameters and the poet laureate's job is yours.
Time to fill my coffee cup
Now that I have stirred things up
The game's about opinions, innit?
Context, as ever. (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/the-role-of-gender-and-words.131/page-2#post-10107) There are various liberal and rationalist reasons for favouring gender neutral language, especially for describing things or for generic usages, which are sometimes persuasive and sometimes not, and there is the usual hysterical* backlash whenever language change aimed at some form of equality is advocated. But much more interesting is the fact that we can choose our words, and therefore we have the power to make interventions in meaning, especially by choosing words that draw attention to themselves. Shep intuitively grasps this with her use of 'bird' above.
Quote from: Xipe Totec[something (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/naca-political-jokes-page.38/page-9#post-10421) that doesn't matter here. The reply has been alighted upon because fozy chose a word that a search tells me has never before been used in the history of CycleChat. See if you can spot it.]
And this isn't much better when, with the merest smidgen of creative jouissance you could have replaced the text with something like "Can we leave the Northern Ireland protocol to another time, Boris? I've a long drive to Barnard Castle tomorrow, and can't seem to shake this bastard cold?"
to think, (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/naca-political-jokes-page.38/page-9#post-10443) elsewhere we were discussing people learning and possibly changing their view point. They can’t even smile together.
This thread (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/maureen-lipman-cancel-culture-could-wipe-out-comedy.136/page-7#post-10611) is a good reminder that I must decide soon who to add to my ignore list for 2022....
You people find this comical? (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/the-other-place.83/page-2#post-18423)
QuoteCan a woman have a penis?
Yes but it's none of your damn business (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/trans-athletes-in-sport.218/page-10#post-19867) for most purposes. Is there a potential conflict in some areas of life including the competitive sport that is the subject of this thread? Yes, but it’s not based on penis possession.QuoteWhat is the conflict based on, in your opinion
Fear, I think. I’m not dismissive of that - if you feel it, you feel it - but I do tend to take a steer from the women I’m closest to. They’re not particularly bothered by the bathroom thing so I find I’m not either.
I cannot imagine (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/trans-athletes-in-sport.218/page-11#post-19901) a trans woman who does not conform to standard female anatomy standing around blatantly naked in front of others.
it's pointless (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/trans-athletes-in-sport.218/page-11#post-19907) to the point of downright harmful to attempt these kinds of discussions on the internet…
amplify fear, division, and stoke up the 'culture war’.
I know actual real life transwomen and they would never do anything this.
There's always someone making deliberately juvenile attempts to bring it down to 'Hee hee a woman with a willy' [You rang? (https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4536457-this-dick-obsessed-with-his-dick)] discussions.
But then women suffer enough 'body policing' as it is, so I guess it's just another element of that.
Anyway, I'm a fool for joining in.
It's not just in elite cycling (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/trans-athletes-in-sport.218/page-12#post-20835) that this is an issue. Here's yesterday's results from the Tweedlove Enjoyro comp in Peebles. The E bike Women's category race was won by a biological male:
QuoteThis is the kind of event that gets women into racing, rather than just riding for fun. Allowing males to enter the female categories will put off women from bothering to enter at all.
And as easily as that, (https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4536845-tweedlove-enjoyro-awarding-1st-place-in-womens-category-to-biological-male) women are gently ushered out of competitive sport. No aggression, no coercion. Just make it not worth even trying.
Will people desert in droves or will it become (as I fear) a magnet for the righteous right?
I might join twitter just so I can flounce-off on principle of something or other….
He's going to ruin it for everyone isn't he? He's going to put in an edit button, I just know it.
It means that you should be allowed to express your opinion, not that your opinion should make you immune from the consequences.
Marina Hyde is a genius. This quote from the article by her completely summarises, better than I ever could, my own disillusionment with this particular forum.
"If you spend your day caught up in online fighting, it’s preferable to tell yourself you’re involved in consciousness-raising for your cause. An alternative view is that you are simply obsessively polarising your particular debate, to the point where compromise – boring, unfashionable, yet historically always necessary – becomes a more distant possibility."
.....and the Real Tennis analogy.
Elon Musk is a twat.
Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/breakingviews/elon-musk-probably-wont-buy-twitter-2022-04-27/) reckon he probably can't be arsed with it anyway.
Twat.
Humour me, why is this so important then?
Isn't free speech a good thing?
There's always the 'off' button don't forget.
Some less educated people (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/twitter-under-musk.234/page-5#post-21124) will fall for an easy lie to in place of discovering the more complicated by truth. Eg "taking back control"
Especially if it plays to their already formed prejudices, or unconcious biases.
Quote from: shepTwitter, TicTok, if they're all so bad why use them?
Because I can just ignore the misinformation and abuse and read the stuff I am interested in. Like I do with NACA.
Every time someone complains about the Independent paywall it makes me feel like some sort of genius hacking savant.
there comes a point at which it starts to feel like playing chess with pigeons
Quote from: mudsticksI've got this idea in my head that I'm not really very tech savvy compared with most.
Moments like this make me feel like a modern day Ada Lovelace
Whereas I feel like a modern day Linda Lovelace…
Asking why people look at twitter is like asking why people look at the internet, it really is very diverse. It has people from pretty much every imaginable walk of life, you can chose to read what they have to say, and engage with them, or not.
Quote from: Fab FoodieWell surprise surprise, the Tory gammonarty and the right wing press are yet again out of step with public opinion.....
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/may/01/four-in-five-people-in-the-uk-believe-in-being-woke-to-race-and-social-justice?
Almost makes you feel errr....proud to be British'ish....
What is interesting (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/the-good-news-only-thread.155/page-24#post-21399) in the report is that it uses the word 'elites' 9 times, and yes I have just spent some time reading the whole report, but never once tells us who the 'elites' are.
I assume that is anyone elected to political office or who is qualified as a journalist?
With continued pressure from elites, we know that the common ground can splinter. We have seen this happen under Trump in the States, and the beginnings of such division in the UK over Brexit.
People want to feel part of a tribe, and Social Identity Theory suggests that people are inclined to view theirs as superior to others. It feeds our self-esteem and sense of belonging in an increasingly turbulent and atomised world. Politicians know they can exploit that for their own ends, as well as the press.
--
Over two thirds of voters believe that elites are undermining unity and amplifying division. We know media outlets have an incentive to sensationalise splits to grow their audiences, whilst politicians can profit from weaponising division against their opponents.
--
However, people believe that political elites are undermining this consensus in Britain, with over two thirds blaming politicians, journalists and social media.
I'm not here on earth to persuade anyone else of my view, prosletise, or convert anyone to my way of thinking.
A man has been blocked (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/the-good-news-only-thread.155/page-19#post-19148) from competing against women in the Omnium.
She's a trans woman. Get out of here with your misgendering transphobic bullshit. Honestly, on the 'good news' thread? You should be ashamed of yourself.
please don’t debase the issue by calling her a man. She’s not a man.
Whether she should be allowed to complete against biological females is a separate issue which we have discussed numerous times. The conclusion of the discussion tends to be that it’s impossible to square that circle without compromising one group in favour of another.
If you want to discuss it further then start a new thread.
So far we've demonstrated many times over that there isn't sufficient knowledge sensitivity or space on these boards to discuss this matter properly…
No transphobic speech on the 'Good News' thread.
Ta very much (https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/okay.gif)
You were quite rightly pulled up for calling her a man. Whether or not she should be allowed to compete against other women is a different, more nuanced issue, calling her a man is just trolling or being ignorant.
Quote from: Beeboplease don’t debase the issue by calling her a man. She’s not a man.
I reckon it is impossible to say what he or she is. After all, Biden is nominating a woman (whatever that means) for the Supreme Court who cannot answer the question what a woman is. One assumes Biden must have had some idea what this difficult word means when proposing her. Not easy in this enlightened age.Quote from: winjimIt's a perfectly legitimate discussion to have, but it should be one that's possible to have without resorting to transphobia.
You need to define transphobia, as the ~phobia suffix is added it seems to me where any criticism, however reasoned, can be safely ignored as 'hate' speech. Emoting triumphs over thinking. You only need to see the verbal abuse and reviling of J K Rowling for an example of this.
I have to agree with PaulB that this is good news for women's sport and I find it extraordinary when women don't agree with this.
Could the transphobes please start their own thread so I can put it on ignore? It would save this one from being polluted any more than it has been.
Thank you.
More good news (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/the-good-news-only-thread.155/page-21#post-19354) on the men cycling as women front when a leading female former cyclist gives her views on this topic...
Apologies it's in the Heil but it's all her own work! https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10680099/Olympic-gold-medallist-NICOLE-COOKE-hero-trans-woman-bravely-speaks-out.html
I'm just posting this message as a reminder to myself that this is an unmoderated forum, we'd all like to keep it open, and there's no need to chase a point about which I have already made my feelings unequivocally clear.
I spotted your two deliberate attempts at transphobic controversy there.
Quote from: PaulBNicole Cooke's article a bit too much for you then?I think the issue with posting it in this thread is triumphalism over the decision about Bridges. Foodie has started another thread on the topic.
THE TRANS ATHELETE THREAD IS OVER THERE ----->>>>>
The good news will be if and when they find a way for all athletes, be they cis or trans, male or female, to compete properly at a level and with a degree of fairness and respect that everybody is happy with.
Perhaps the first philosopher of mutual aid - Mozi. Another carpenter changed by history.
(https://i.imgur.com/2MuLbqG.jpg)
As far as I can make out, the only original words of Jesus preserved intact are 'get up girl' - Michael Jackson's loose translation from the Aramaic - Mark 5.41
Quote from: BeeboEvery day is a school day. (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/naca-political-jokes-page.38/page-24#post-20893)
I’ve learned the word langer.
See if you can use it in a sentence this week.
Quote from: spen666Quote from: Fab FoodieYou can't be said to be a free country and deny women's rights over their bodies....
A good soundbite that actually does not stand up to scrutiny.
All laws control what people do - some with property, some with their body. For example the law says I cannot put Class A drugs into my body. So does that mean its not a free country?
All laws are a balance between competing rights. In the case of the abortion laws, the rights of the unborn child have to be balanced against the right of the female not to give birth / continue the pregnancy.
How a society balances competing rights & interests is a legitimate debate
None of the above should be twisted into saying I am anti abortion . I am not expressing a view on whether abortion should be allowed or not.
No shoot Sherlock….
Regarding abortion, I don't really want to get into it as I find it quite upsetting and don't consider it to be a 'debate' at all, other than to say, and I know it's because of the US legal system, that I really dislike the confrontational use of the term 'versus'. It feels unnecessarily antagonistic to me.
Excuse the multiple parenthetical clauses.
As far as I'm concerned it's an issue where there's a right side and a wrong side, and I have very little time for those on the wrong side.
Abortion should be safe, legal, and rare. (https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/12/the-brilliance-of-safe-legal-and-rare/603151/)
How about a sex (with men) strike??
I'm sure I'm on the ignore list of quite a few chaps on here, who can't bear the sound of my 'opinionated wimmins' voice.
Reading through several threads this morning, a few folks are having issues with paywalls on news sites. Rather than go through individually and link this, I thought I'd create a thread with this link, which eliminates them: https://12ft.io
Quote from: BoldonLadIsn’t bypassing the paywall akin to not having a TV licence and watching Live BBC TV?
No.
The options are there for everyone. Do with the link whatever you feel comfortable with, it really doesn't matter to me.
Nor will it matter to anyone selling their journalism which is behind a paywall.
The journalists will be paid the same, and those who own whichever outlet will still make their money.
I think it's right we should pay for good quality journalism, but I'm not going to take out a subscription to a newspaper with political values antithetical to my own, purely for the pointless purpose of debunking the spurious assertions of some cyclist or other on a minor corner of the internet.
It has been shown often enough that the only thing that mattered to some was getting out of the EU, often based on nothing more than the fallacy of "taking back control of our borders", no matter how much worse off the country is.
Most of those are so economically and socially illiterate, uncaring, or all three, that, as long as it doesn't affect their little lives too much, they are happy to have "won". Asking them for answers about the benefits is just asking them to think, and stresses their brains too much.
God Almighty!
Pope Francis has said (https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia-ukraine-latest-news-2022-05-03/card/pope-says-nato-may-have-provoked-russian-invasion-of-ukraine-E7VAcqXGK8xNoHxJPQFs) the “barking of NATO at the door of Russia” might have led to the invasion of Ukraine and that he didn't know whether other countries should supply Ukraine with more arms.
“In Ukraine, it was other states that created the conflict,” Pope Francis said in the interview, without identifying which states. He likened the war to other conflicts that he said were fomented by international interests: “Syria, Yemen, Iraq, one war after another in Africa.”
“I don’t know how to answer—I am too far away—whether it is right to supply the Ukrainians” with weapons, the pope said. “What’s clear is that in this land arms are being tested… Wars are fought for this: to test the arms we have made.”
As head of an authoritarian, single party state tolerating no dissent even on the existence of his invisible friend, he has the cheek to lecture democratically elected, upstanding leaders of the free world, like our Boris and Truss. Sitting behind Swiss mercenaries armed with lethal spears, he is nothing more than a hypocrite, spewing venom against Lockheed and our BAe. I trust you all agree, that we in the liberal West now have a duty to sanction the Vatican till it goes bust, freeze all wealth from all Catholics (especially those who are rich AND powerful, like Biden; but not Boris, since he is neither rich, powerful nor practicing, afaict), and silence them as belligerent state sponsored actors. This comprehensive package of actions will uphold our rule based order, (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/war-with-russia.71/page-78#post-21541) and hopefully cause a regime change at the Holy See.
I think you all would also be gratified to know, that never mind our messaging, censorship has actually been working great even before our latest legislation (https://twitter.com/FCDOGovUK/status/1521833370598232064) - neither the ft nor the Guardian, like numerous msm on all sides of the political spectrum, has reported this travesty by the Pope, in case the weak of mind amongst you lot might succumb to such nonsense and be swayed.
For the man himself? Exactly like that RecordAceFromNew "Russian sleeper" in this Parish, the Pope is clearly a Putin apologist, conflating the war with the dastardly image below. (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/war-with-russia.71/page-58#post-17807) I therefore feel sure, at the very least, that @Mr Celine and @BoldonLad would support his burning at stake… (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/war-with-russia.71/page-59#post-17839)
Amen.
Quote from: BoldonLadIf we take as read, that women should have control of their own body, and, that the right to terminate a pregnancy should the woman’s personal free choice. At which point is it felt that the sperm donor (ie father), should have any responsibilities and/or rights?
Rights regarding the termination or otherwise of a pregnancy?
Absolutely none, zero, nothing, in any way, shape or form.
Re male input into a decision about termination. You would hope that most people were in relationships where they could come to the decision that was right for them together. But ultimately it has to be the woman's decision because pregnancy can be physically dangerous and having a child you don't want can be hugely psychologically damaging. That's not to say that these issues don't affect the male; most men are devastated by a partners miscarriage for example. However, the risks and hardships of pregnancy, both medical and emotional, are almost exclusively borne by the woman so the decision must lie with them.
AuroraSaab: I can see Craig's point on this.
theclaud: Give over.
Craig the cyclist: One day [theclaud] will agree with me, it's bound to happen.
AuroraSaab: I don't disagree with every post by certain members just because that person wrote it. I'd rather address each individual argument on its merits, regardless of who posted it.
Maggot really does not have a point, unless you count repeatedly demonstrating oneself to be a tendentious w[a]nker as a point of some kind.
Ignore misinformation and abuse? You mean the fun parts?
I'm not advocating (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/american-bombshell-roe-vs-wade.238/page-10#post-22026) giving gratuitous abuse, merely pointing out that should you wish to, w@nker will usually do it. Except in those cases where it's merely descriptive, e.g. Tory MPs...
If you want further to indulge Craig's appetite for disingenuous attention seeking, any number of new threads suggest themselves: "Slavery: must it always in every case be a bad thing? What about where a sub-saharan African child is rescued from certain death at the incisors of a rabid hippo by avuncular slave traders, and gets to go on a cruise, all expenses paid? Well? You haven't thought this though like I have", "Fritzl; better mad with much love than idiot with none?" etc.
Just for the record, I'm of the view that women should have the right to feed their offspring into a wood-chipper head first at any time until the child has achieved financial independence.
I'm not interested (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/american-bombshell-roe-vs-wade.238/page-10#post-22074) in 'winning' the likes of 'Craig' over to anything. 'Maggot' is not an epithet, as Bromptonaut has explained - it's a reference to his former CC moniker, under which he was every bit as vile, in-thread and elsewhere. I'm also not interested in decorum - you can worry, if you want to, about the etiquette of how you address someone whose forum behaviour is so reliably and deliberately repugnant. Anyway, 'w*nker' is, in these circumstances, as close to a compliment as I can muster.
None of it matters, of course - Unkraut's stifling moral sensibilities, Craig's horribleness, Spen's bizarre conviction that anyone is interested in his 'views' on what women should be 'allowed' to do... Women need abortions, and women have abortions - they always will. When your back is against the wall of an unwanted pregnancy, as I think Katha Pollitt said, it's neither here nor there whether the foetus is a 'person' or not (it isn't). But of course endangering, hurting, frightening, immiserating, policing, controlling and judging women is the point, not a means to an end.
I doubt anything you say will affect Craig, but it might affect others who are reading the thread and make them reflect on the issue.
I'd much rather NACA had lots of different contributors rather the hard core of half a dozen regular posters, but I think the bickering on here puts them off, so the style of posting does affect more people than just those doing the posting.
I reckon (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/american-bombshell-roe-vs-wade.238/page-11#post-22113) liberal tone policing and the delusion that this is some sort of debating society governed by decorum and procedure probably puts off more people than I do by being insufficiently respectful of re-incarnated gremlins from over the road. Who can say?
[My interpretation] (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/american-bombshell-roe-vs-wade.238/page-12#post-22142)
…below is a short summary of the beginning of a semon by John MacArthur, an elder statesman in the movement…
There's so much nonsense (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/american-bombshell-roe-vs-wade.238/page-12#post-22156) flying about on this thread that I think to avoid getting dragged into it and for the sake of my own sanity and respect for other people the sensible thing to do is to mute it.
The irony of my feeling I have to leave the discussion because of posts made by religious moralists is not lost on me, just so you know.
Is irony the right word? Is there a term for irony that also means really bitter and shitty? I dunno, anyway you get my point.
I’ve not hit the ignore button yet, but to clarify it's more to prevent myself reacting in what would be an antagonistic and hostile manner and would not move the discussion forwards in a constructive manner.
I hold to my initial point that I don't consider this a debate. I would consider it disrespectful to people directly affected by the provision of abortion care for two cis men to be arguing over religion in this thread, so I'm removing the temptation for me to get involved in such an argument.
I seem to have a very busy week / life coming up…
I might be tempted to say that the breathtaking ignorance, and arrogance displayed by some 'debating' this issue, on here, whilst possessing no 'uterus in the game' absolutely beggars belief .
I would say that...
But in fact it does no such thing, it's just routine behaviour, from people who feel their 'opinion' is as valid as anyone elses, however ignorant they may be.
Quote from: UnkrautOne of my problems with this is that modern secularists assert that if a man says he is a woman, then he is (as you well know!) whilst at the same time being unable to give a definition of what a woman is.
As you well know, views on this topic (irrelevant here) are not divided along religious lines and there are a range of views completely unrelated to whether someone believes in a god or not.
For thou didst form my inward parts,
thou didst knit me together in my [pregnant person’s] [thing the front hole leads to].
I praise thee/them, for they is fearful and wonderful.
Wonderful are thy works! (http://www.notanothercyclingforum.net/bikereader/contributors/SAM/apocrypha.html)
Thou knowest me right well;
my frame (not that one (https://i.imgur.com/fFUN1Cx.jpg)) was not hidden from thee,
when I was being made in secret, (https://abigailshrier.substack.com/p/should-public-schools-be-allowed?s=r)
intricately wrought in the depths (https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/?p=5286) of the earth.
Thy eyes beheld my unformed and unassigned substance;
in thy book (https://www.notanothercyclingforum.net/index.php?topic=1638.msg11381#msg11381) were written, every one of them,
the days that were formed for me,
when as yet there was none of them.
There exist people with deeply held 'controversial' opinions and beliefs that are widely viewed as unacceptable, even outrageous - so should we respect the views of those who think black people are not deserving of equal rights? That homosexuality should be outlawed and gay people criminalised? That women should have no autonomy over their own bodies?
Everything is there from conception. If that is not the case, when do the unborn become human? When do they cease to be part of the mother's body?worth a reprint:
This is not as a rule how people view the unborn if the subject is not abortion. When colleagues or friends have got pregnant they never talk about having a foetus, they are expecting a baby, and if they sadly have a miscarriage they mourn the loss. It's not like having a tooth or appendix out. Babies born very prematurely can now be saved by near miraculous medical intervention, and it is a baby, a human being that is saved and that all rejoice over.
Re male input into a decision about termination. You would hope that most people were in relationships where they could come to the decision that was right for them together. But ultimately it has to be the woman's decision because pregnancy can be physically dangerous and having a child you don't want can be hugely psychologically damaging. That's not to say that these issues don't affect the male; most men are devastated by a partners miscarriage for example. However, the risks and hardships of pregnancy, both medical and emotional, are almost exclusively borne by the woman so the decision must lie with them.
Any Questions was pretty good this week.
I wouldn't join a religion that would have me as a believer….
One of those hybrid remarx. (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/american-bombshell-roe-vs-wade.238/page-15#post-22265)
tldr. (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/american-bombshell-roe-vs-wade.238/page-14#post-22261)
I'm not going to bother with a lengthy reply to Unkraut's last, because it's so grotesque I don't wish to dignify it by treating it as a legitimate argument
What if (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/american-bombshell-roe-vs-wade.238/page-16#post-22314) anti-abortionists were forced to carry any cancerous tumours they develop to full term? Would the removal of a life changing bundle of rapidly multiplying cells suddenly become a purely medical matter?
Quote from: mudsticksWhat would Jesus say?? Oh hang on, he wouldn't get to say anything would he?? "We'll have no brown skinned peeps in 'our' church thanks.."
Nah, I reckon (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/american-bombshell-roe-vs-wade.238/page-17#post-22345) he'd roll with:
"Yo, I hang out with 12 dudes a day, and I'm f*cking at least three of them. And don't get me started on all the hookers I'm cool with. Everyone's on board.
"That said. See you m*therf*ckers trying to run up debts in MY HOUSE? Get the f*ck out of here."
So, in conclusion, Jesus was polyamorous and didn't like seeing people get taken advantage of. And some f*ckers think the modern interpretation that's been f*cked around by old whiiii....tttt...eeee..... guuuuyyy...ssssss for.
Nope. Boring myself.
Read your bible religious f*ckers, see what it's all about.
Yours,
A committed pagan, with the tattoos to prove it. Not that I need them, or that Jesus would have eithe..... oh, wait, I'm getting into that boring sh*t again.
I think (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/jubilee-celebrate-ignore-or-bemoan.243/#post-22370) Derek Jarman was a genius.
I still regularly shout out "My gawd, it's Amyl Nitrate!”
Quote from: newfhouse(https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/wave.gif)
Is that a tardy hello. (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/the-other-place.83/page-6#post-22602)
Or goodbye ??
I seemed to have managed to lure one of our esteemed mods over here
Quote from: mudsticksif you look at post views, it appears we do have more than just a few 'readers'. Unless it's solely our current membership, endlessly rereading their own posts
I hardly read my hopelessly vague virtue signalling nonsense when I write it
Can so-called feminists invested in the moral panic about transgender issues please stop being taken in so easily by obvious gender conservatives, homophobes and outright anti-feminists, please?
It would also help if the media, or at least those wanting to be taken seriously didn't try and kebab politicians by asking them what a woman is.
5'10" and 10st of geeky four eyed puny autistic masculinity
Perhaps I don't have daughters. Perhaps I do. Perhaps I only think I do.
I'm fairly open about my white cis-het able bodied male privilege
Feminist analysis (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/f-ck-the-tories-a-thread-dedicated-to-suella-braverman.253/page-23#post-25156) has left the 'GC' building - these people are scared of Judith Butler and their hero is JK farking Rowling.
Step away from the keyboard.
The end game is, put crudely, to abolish gender
Gender again. Sorry! (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/)
I believe (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-3#post-26820) the report is a good-faith exploration...
Quote from: winjimI don't want to be a back seat moderator or anything and I get the banter but there are a few posts over the last week or so especially that I think have crossed a line, or if not come pretty close.
Does it surprise you? (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/world-gone-mad.280/page-7#post-28605) Did you think we'd carefully promoted+nurtured a culture where that wouldn't happen?
Quote from: theclaudI guess (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/world-gone-mad.280/page-10#post-28718) we could try banning emojis.
These callow parvenus won't get that ACF call back.
Quote from: cookiemonsterLooking at some threads and the way they've gone, I think Shaun will pull the plug by the year's end.
What say you? Are we beyond redemption?
It functions just fine as a hot poultice drawing all thepoisonrich microbial culture from the mothership, requires no moderation, gives him no headaches, deters no advertisers. How has this idea that it's a problem for him gained traction?
Quote from: cookiemonsterWe could follow 'Troll free Tuesday' with 'Woke Wednesday.' (https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/laugh.gif)
Trans Thursday
Female Friday
Self gratification SaturdaySod allSmiley-free Sunday
Manic MondayQuote from: cookiemonsterSelf Gratification Saturday? (https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/eek.gif)
Got to have one pleasurable day in the week….
are the inmates still running the asylum???
You're so vain.
I bet you think this thread is about you, don't you?
NACF?
Personal opinion is it's not AnotherSam posting either.
the notion (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/what-do-we-think-so-far.70/page-5#post-3955) that the rest of CC is all now sweetness and light is cobblers.
Ever since 10 things great about you (https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/cc-10-things-great-about-you.181614/) turned into something more like "Fun (https://www.notanothercyclingforum.net/acf/index.php?topic=53198.0) and friendly? (https://www.notanothercyclingforum.net/acf/index.php?topic=53244.0) Not so effing fast", CycleChat has held a special place in what you might call my affəctions. (https://www.notanothercyclingforum.net/index.php?topic=1638.msg11394#msg11394)
Whatever must he think of us?
We all need to consider how we're posting and what we're responding to.
The precursor to Yacf was of course acf (https://www.notanothercyclingforum.net/acf/index.php?topic=10161.0), where I used to be fond of saying "Every time you post, think about what kind of forum you want." Perhaps this sounded a bit tiring, so it got bumped down (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=register) in favour of the wit and wisdom of Bill & Ted.
Quote from: stephecDo you mind you lot, I'm working through series seven of Shameless on Netflix at the moment and this proving a bit of a distraction, mind you the way it's going its hard to tell the difference.
It's 'distracting' in the same way a dumpster fire is. It's no wonder NACA is the same ten of us posting. Why on earth would anybody from mainstream CC want to be associated with any part of this.
I propose (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/this-forum-and-the-current-state-of-affairs.294/page-4#post-31185) piloting a troll-free Tuesday with a view to extending it to a full self-gratification artist-free week. Each member to avoid or ignore one person.
We are living on borrowed time (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/what-do-we-think-so-far.70/page-5#post-3937) until someone really tries to disrupt it. If we built houses like this site, woodpeckers would destroy civilisation eventually.
Quote from: Mr Celine@AndyRM if you respond to it again I'm putting you on ignore.
I've left it. I haven't put the stupid c*nt on ignore, but I will leave him to his own devices.
Quote from: AuroraSaabWhat's the purpose of this forum?
Fly paper. The main forum would be buzzing without it.
mudsticks: I have you all under my Draconian Muddy power .. Follow me troops .. (https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/smiley.png) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Milkfloat: Can I get a membership card? (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/this-forum-and-the-current-state-of-affairs.294/page-14#post-31512) I love a good membership card. I bet AnotherSam would rustle one up in a jiffy.
mudsticks: I think that's a great idea. But don't look to me for one, this is definitely an 'outsourcing job'. After over twenty years in business, I still don't have a business card.
You're a good cünt.
Quote from: jowwyAfter i read this post earlier today. I private messaged @AndyRM to call a truce, to which we have now both agreed on, hoepfully going foward these types of posts will no longer be seen.
Calling it time (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/swearing-and-or-offensive-language.296/page-6#post-31646) is more than cool with me, and I'm glad that we went there.
I stopped paying attention (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/climate-crisis-are-we-doing-enough.17/page-13#post-31944) to Bill Maher when he uncritically, and even sycophantically, platformed Jordan Peterson.
There is a difference (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/yet-more-tory-sleaze%E2%80%A6.106/page-161#post-31675) between intelligence and wisdom. An Oxford education may feed the intelligence, but you need wisdom to know what to do with all your knowledge.
Hence some very well educated people can say and do some very stupid things!
Totally off topic…. (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/this-forum-and-the-current-state-of-affairs.294/page-16#post-31591)but someone recently told me about the lens function on my phone.When we'd go walking my partner would sometimes try and identify birds/plants etc.....feel like I found a miracle with lens. Although she took a picture of me and said I came up as a Sloth.
Swear words (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/swearing-and-or-offensive-language.296/page-12#post-31976) are called expletives because they don't add anything to the meaning of the sentence, and there is no real need ever to use them.
Quote from: AuroraSaabLanguage is how we communicate, it's how we understand the world…
Language is (also) how we dessicate and eviscerate the world, how we trade our birthright for a bowl full of nouns, how we delude ourselves, and the means of forgetting "there lives the dearest freshness deep down things."
a simple, immediate sensory experience, (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/bin-ladens-bestie-charles.299/#post-32033) a commonplace qualia, is already beyond the range of mighty language to communicate, unless/until we've had the experience and language can point us back in time to re-member or re-cognise it. Language is the dusty catacomb where experience goes to die.
Swearing has helped to develop the field of neuroscience. By providing us with a useful emotional barometer, swearing has been used as a research tool for over 150 years. It has helped to discover some fascinating things about the structure of the human brain, such as its division into left and right hemispheres, and the role of cerebral structures like the amygdala in the regulation of emotions.
Swearing has taught us a great deal about our minds, too. We know that people who learn a second language often find it less stressful to swear in the adopted tongue, which gives us an idea of the childhood developmental stages at which we learn emotions and taboos. Swearing also makes the heart beat faster and primes us to think aggressive thoughts while, paradoxically, making us less likely to be physically violent.
I'm no longer supportive of Brexit. (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/oh-no-brexit-not-going-quite-as-well-as-hoped.34/page-256#post-31924) I was wrong, I hoped for big change for the better but it's not worked out yet. I don't think it will, if ever, or for at least a few years… I initially thought that a drastic change would pave the way for a more positive and self sufficient country but it was blue sky thinking. I gave the powers that be too much credit.
Quote from: jowwyAnd youve showed your virute signalling remoaner whinging on every thread in this forum….
…It's clearly pointless engaging with someone like you.
C'mon let's hug it out. (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/yet-more-tory-sleaze%E2%80%A6.106/page-163#post-32007)
until (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/yet-more-tory-sleaze%E2%80%A6.106/page-166#post-32072) the owner asks me to leave or revokes my privileges, i will be here for a very long time to come.
(https://i.imgur.com/QhrXDYY.jpg)
Engage brain before mouth retard. (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/main-cc-forum.327/page-15#post-35114)
Go suck some cock……. (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/main-cc-forum.327/page-18#post-35198)
has mudders flounced, (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/this-forum-and-the-current-state-of-affairs.294/page-22#post-37965) or is she merely honing an exceptionally long post?
It is well (https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/wheres-mudsticks.287921/#post-6819484): you have said the truth. It is indeed. (https://twitter.com/jollygoodthen/status/1000279733324648448)
jowwy: Pale rider having some more fun and now mudsticks joins in too
Rusty Nails: I suspect someone is pulling YACF’s plonker.
Bromptonaut: Yeah, it reads like a parody account.
Rusty Nails: Difficult to be certain but, other than the too obvious use of short paragraphs, the styles seem to be similar. Unless PR always harboured a secret yen to move from reporting on court cases to the literary pages.
theclaud: ????!!!!!! Haven't we been through all this, a few weeks or so ago?
Rusty Nails: Which bit in particular? The parody account? That was a week ago, a long time on NACA.
Quote from: AuroraSaabI think many posters on here are happy it's a little club that no one wants to join.
Really?
I don't detect that at all….
Quote from: matticusAnyone fancy a pint?
Good idea. (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/voluntary-behaviour-code.352/page-5#post-38833) Despite all the squabbling there are very few members of this forum I wouldn't want to have a pint with.
I do feel sorry for the guy with the £130k watch since he obviously couldn't afford the £750k one. It's like when I bought my CdF because I couldn't quite stretch to the Croix de Fer. It's perfectly fine and most people couldn't care less, but the tiny percentage of the population who are mid 2010s Genesis bicycle enthusiasts will know that it's the cheaper model and quite frankly I would be embarrassed to be in their presence.
Quote from: newfhouseI'm of immigrant heritage and I won't be moving to work. I may even be thought of as a scumbag. Pleb, definitely. There goes the neighbourhood.
We could found a New Town for the common man, Plebury. Just an ordinary common or garden kind of nowhere. Everyone would know their place. Buildings could be designed in some kind of down-at-heel, semi-derilict vernacular. Jonathan Meades might make a program about it. Everything would be commonplace. There would be a station, nobody would be above it, but we'd all know how to go on.
People try to control the language used to control the people.
Quote from: Rusty NailsIt is an improvement obviously, and it will continue to fluctuate, but it is interesting how the choice of axis scales can change the look of a situation.
Oh yes, changing the scale is a good way of making graphs look a lot better
shep: Old jowser can barely string a sentence together but he's managed to hold down a job and owns 'multiple properties', what's going on?
cookiemonster: And is multilingual too, so he says.
AndyRM: I suppose the version of English he umses on the forum is almost foreign.
shep: Cunnilingual more like.
Cannot connect to Twitter. Disable any adblocker and tracking prevention then try again (https://twitter.com/david_firth/status/1575473269351845888?s=21&t=31aTcoUvpCTcLDzQ0xXxEQ)
Quote from: albionThe early part of the interview was very hard left.
Was it the bit about chatting to the queen about pickles (https://youtu.be/PSTmjY5rV1w?t=116)?
His latest crime under Starmer's insanely authoritarian regime is to be, like thousands of ordinary Labour members, critical of NATO.
I don't think (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/excellent-interview.362/#post-38944) Corbyn is an anti-Semite. He's happy to be closely aligned with those who are though. He's also happy to be on pro-Kremlin news channels like Russia Today.
P.s. they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery etc etc, but that Sam chap is in another league altogether right??
who is this Sam? (https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/wheres-mudsticks.287921/page-2#post-6823427)
Sometimes I look at the on-line Guardian just for a dose of outrage.
How frickin' spineless is this?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/oct/01/king-charles-abandons-plans-to-attend-cop27-following-liz-trusss-advice?
…something about their emissions.
Any chance of people just not talking about either their own and/or other member's sex lives full stop?
QuoteView attachment 2095 (https://naca.cyclechat.net/attachments/1663083720232-png.2095/)
Looks idyllic. And chilled. Children playing outside the perimeter. Communal meal being prepared on the one fire. A man entertaining a little girl with some fiddle playing. Someone truing a wheel!
Ripe for gentrification, re-development and social cleansing.
Quote from: classic33Has the time come for moderators on the site?
Yes or No
I put forward the following three,
AndyRM, cookiemonster & Fab Foodie.
Its a simple Yes or No question. However if you want to nominate someone else, say so.
No; No; No; No.
Im not stirring anything….. (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/oh-no-brexit-not-going-quite-as-well-as-hoped.34/page-205#post-29781) i answered the question honestly and have said nothing else
how is that sh*t stirring
did i vote brexit in 2016- yes
im happy were out of the EU - yes
would i vote yes again - yes
has the UK government made a clusterfark of it - yes
am i happy with my decision - yes
so there your answers, no pot stirring, no winding up, just simple honest answers.
as far as why am i here goes, cause clowns like you keep asking me pathetic questions and keep drawing me back into this thread……stop asking questions, i stay out of here.
it really is that simple for me.
Anyone who voted for brexit, (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/oh-no-brexit-not-going-quite-as-well-as-hoped.34/page-132#post-22806) or for the Tories who pushed it through was either unbelievably deluded, or deliberately wanted to harm this country.
There was plenty of information (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/oh-no-brexit-not-going-quite-as-well-as-hoped.34/page-205#post-29772) out there
It's just people couldn't be bothered to find out, and just listened to the lies in the billionaire owned press, and shoot written on buses.
The brexit referendum was a supremely dumb idea, "Ask a stupid question - get a stupid answer" would have been a bad idea anywhere, but especially here, where there's a definite theme of 'revelling' in ignorance.
Along with the xenophobia, and exceptionalism..
Bothering to find out and educate yourself is still seen in many circles as either 'sad' or 'suspicious'.
An idea encouraged by the very populist media, and political class, that benefits from keeping people in a state of ignorant unknowing.
Why don't we make it into a parody social media site where everyone responds tetchily to each other, getting annoyed at imagined or actual slights and insinuendo. [I added that last bit - Ed.] Meanwhile one bloke shouts random obscenities and insults from the sidelines whilst insisting that everyone else is being obscene & abusive, and that he's the only sane & sensible voice.
Quote from: F.. F…..Galileo! Galileo!
I think Boldonlad was trying more for this look:
In the jungle, the mighty jungle, the lion sleeps tonight. Or would do, but the jowler monkey has other ideas.Quote(https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/laughing.gif)(https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/laughing.gif)(https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/laughing.gif)(https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/laughing.gif)(https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/laughing.gif) (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/site-moderators.364/#post-39251)
Is it in fact a monkey? Some of the natives speak of a mythical mutant Welsh bear (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/oh-no-brexit-not-going-quite-as-well-as-hoped.34/page-202#post-29621) airdropped in the dead of night. Whatever it is, the environment suits it just fine: not too hot (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/main-cc-forum.327/#post-34651) and not too cold. (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/oh-no-brexit-not-going-quite-as-well-as-hoped.34/page-201#post-29617)
Looks like he's finally splashing the cash and paying over the odds for Twitter. Can't help thinking this isn't going to go well….
Morons (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/morons.384/page-2#post-40238)
I'll just plough on through the personal abuse and try to get somewhere.
So how far do you think that the coalition of Stop Oil should be allowed to go in their protest? Because like I said, you are generally pretty supportive of the right to protest by all sorts of groups, obviously right up until they do something you personally don't agree with, at which point they become morons.
Now for some people that 'moron' line is closer, for others further away. You have found your line (although it may have been closer if you read the Guardian more closely). How does it feel to have reached the point of becoming a right-wing fascist control freak trying to stop legal peaceful protest?
It will never end! (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/daily-mail-appear-to-have-not-learnt-lessons.371/page-2#post-40091)
There's a fun clip (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/gbeebies.15/page-7#post-40212) of Graham Norton taking the piss out of Cleese but then making the point that we shouldn't really care what Norton has to say either which means that by watching and promoting the clip we end up in a weird destruction of the fabric of logic.
Quote from: Badger_BoomI thought Campbell's was the artists' choice when it came to soup?
You're right, (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/morons.384/page-2#post-40259) and note how this act of transgressive creativity is already feeding what George Steiner would call a 'visioning' of the established narrative, itself a creative response rather than parasitic commentary.
Quote from: BromptonautWhat happens @Craig the cyclist is that people post something. You then apply your own thought process so as to take portray them as having said something different accuse the poster of hypocrisy.
You did exactly the same thing to me. I questioned facts around people too long in hospital and you made a completely false parallel about people losing their homes.
To do it once might be a mistake, to do it twice and more looks deliberate.
Whether it's trolling or not it does not advance debate. [I don't rate Bromptonaut enough to bump up the point size in this nested quote. He can come back from this, but it will take work.]
There can't be people still unclear about Craig's bad-faith MO, surely?
https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/who-cares.35/post-1962
Quote from: shepPeople on here aren't looking for debate they just want to be agreed with.
No they don't ...
The hard right are rising-up to take over the National Trust. I struggle to understand what makes the likes of 'Restore Trust' so angy and backward looking?
I keep forgetting that a prerequisite of NACA is to concede that almost everybody is a member of the Nazi far Right.
Quote from: F.. F.....Yes, you're right, it's a storm in a tea-cake, or maybe it's the thin edge of an unpleasant Victoria Sponge slice...
Is there anything that isn't the thin edge of the wedge? When it's something that's important to others but not to you it seems to be dismissed as a culture war/pearl clutching non event. When it's an interested party trying to have a say in the direction of a charity it's the equivalent of Kristallknacht.
Life is a lot easier if you sort everyone into Gammons or Woke-rati Tree-huggers; it's much harder to be sarcastic about the middle ground, for one thing
Wightwick Manor is 100yds from my house.
There's definitely a 'comprehension gap' going on here.
Quote from: mudsticksnOpE.
c'MoN bE hOnEsT now bEeBs .
iTs eXaCkeRtLy THE SaMe THING.!!!
And yOu nOeS iT !!!!!
You had a stroke?
What is it that the National Trust needs to do to move with the times and how are they not 'inclusive'?
I remember when Hadley Freeman used to be quite fun.
Surprised this has not been a topic.
I saw the bit of his speech where [DeSantis] was going about "woke" and being "anti-woke". I find this woke narrative very useful. It easily identifies people who are total daffodils in a very time efficient manner.
Their freedom means the ability to lynch black people
Fascism and The Holocaust in one thread.
Quote from: AuroraSaasbIt's really not appropriate to compare everything to the Holocaust.
Especially on 9th November.
Yes, the country is definitely moving in that direction. I’m against it.
Quote from: PK99Roll-on ID cards for everyone!
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/08/labour-revives-id-cards-idea-reduce-irregular-immigration-stephen-kinnock
Tory scum.
Quote from: Rusty NailsThis is an important issue that needs to be resolved, affecting anything between 2% and 6% of the electorate, but nowhere near the end of democracy. It would be wrong to introduce the policy before the issue is resolved and it does need to be publicised.
But please don’t trot out the old “first they came for....”.
They can't come for me if they don't know who I am.
LGBT+ groups have also expressed anger over the voter ID provisions because of the potential for trans people to be turned away if their ID does not match their current appearance.
A simple risk/benefit exercise (based on evidence and projections) shows that an exponentially greater number of people will be disenfranchised by a voter ID law than people having their identity stolen at the ballot box. This law overwhelmingly suits the Tories more than it benefits democracy.
The issue is that any restriction on freedom needs to be justified, proportionate, necessary and democratic. We need to balance the right to anonymity and privacy with the right to access services etc.
So what problems does it solve, what improvements does it facilitate and what safeguards does it provide against abuse and misuse?
They can't come for me if they don't know who I am.
Quote from: Rusty NailsI don't get this UK horror over whichever Republican politician will stand for the presidency. Republicans have always been the same, with a very occasional move to being very slightly less right wing, and the US keeps voting them in. Whichever one gets the nod will be much more right wing than we are used to in this country. Just live with it, we always have, and have no influence on it at all.
You OK @Rusty Nails? Sounding a wee bit like @shep there for a moment(https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/laughing.gif)
A federal judge has reversed a Biden Administration rule that directed the Department of Health and Human Services to increase access to sex change surgeries and hormone therapies, including to children, in a Friday ruling.
Biden’s HHS said in May 2021 that it would interpret a section of the Affordable Care Act, which bars doctors from discriminating on the basis of sex, as covering sexual orientation and gender identity. Two doctors represented by the America First Legal Foundation brought a class action lawsuit against the Biden administration after the HHS took the action, arguing that the rule would interfere with their ability to properly practice medicine.
The judge argued that the Biden administration’s interpretation of Title IX to include “gender identity,” was faulty and could not be changed until Congress passed a law to that effect, or the Supreme Court ruled otherwise.
“As noted above, the ordinary public meaning of ‘sex’ turned on reproductive function when Congress enacted Title IX,” Judge Kacsmaryk, a Trump appointee, wrote. “For an action to occur ‘on the basis of sex,’ biological sex must be the motivating factor.”
The judge also added that by extending sex protections to individuals who identified with a sex other than their biological sex, the purpose of Title IX was compromised.
“Defendants’ reinterpretation of Title IX through the Notification imperils the very opportunities for women Title IX was designed to promote and protect — categorically forcing biological women to compete against biological men.”
Quote from: moistay in your box
Irony alert?
Quote from: theclaudDon't people ever check upthread before posting the bleedin' obvious gag that it's a dead cert someone has already posted?
From each according to their abilities.
Quote from: newfhouse...our rivers will remain polluted for too long but the Tories think forty years of shite and worse is acceptable. That’s some legacy, you filthy scum.
While Gelt, the cronies' river runs
Through loopholes measureless to man at HMRC
Down to non-dom offshore trusts in the pristine Carib Sea.
We now live in broad settled ideological tribes. We no longer need to have real discussions because our positions are already assumed, based on our tribal affiliation.
Quote from: qigong chimpYou know what you must do.
Yea, and verily forsooth, indeed. (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/the-naca-music-art-general-creativity-thread.328/page-12#post-45259)
I have been in possession of said kindling machine for many a merry measure of year.
In bygones past I've evaded the 'not giving any money to the evil barstewards' conundrum, by only ever availing myself of the vintage, and indeed priceless tomes to be found thereupon.
It might divert one's literary perusal more toward the annals of yesteryear, but personally, one sees little intellectual damage arising from such antiquarian consumption.
(https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/boldon.png)Quote from: mudsticksYup, there's a good boy, like I said, keep up the predictable work (https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/thumbs.png)
No less predictable than yourself.
Quote from: FishFrightscary sounding non secateurs are the stock in trade of those spreading delusional beliefs
I'm harvesting this (https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/coronavirus-outbreak.256913/page-1351#post-6855917) for my "Lovely typos" thread. Should it become monetised I'll send you a fiver. Ta
Quote from: jowwy[a rabbit hole with a dog in it] (https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/asking-for-thread-to-be-locked.288863/page-4#post-6855032)
I bother way less getting involved with this forum because of you and the way you post.
Not every one of them has a range of states between them, surely.
Let’s just agree to disagree rather than divert the thread, shall we?(https://i.imgur.com/5Riky5d.png)HOLE > (https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?p=1742319#p1742319)
(https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/likedbywinjim2.png)
Happy to, in the same way that I would agree to disagree that the world is flat. (https://www.eye-books.com/books/the-end-of-the-world-is-flat) [Helpful link added - Ed.]
Life isn't really that 'full' of binaries at all, it's generally far more complicated and nuanced (https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3831584-Nuanced-discussion-dangerous?reply=94190893) than that. [Helpful link added - Ed.]
[Guardian link, regrettably (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/oh-no-brexit-not-going-quite-as-well-as-hoped.34/page-9#post-1088) back on topic]
Still a long way to go….
Well. (https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/this-forum-and-the-current-state-of-affairs.294/#post-31084)
That wasn't predictable at all.
Graham Linehan (writer of Father Ted) has had his twitter ban revoked. Regardless of what you might think of his zeal for womens rights and LG rights in the face of Trans advocacy, he is posting a lot which is food for thought.
worth a read to see the most hated "TERF" side of the fence...
https://twitter.com/Glinner
Graham Linehan has been tweeting some really vile unhinged shoot ever since his account was reinstated. It's the ravings of a madman and says more about recent changes at twitter than it does about Linehan himself.
[partial SNAP] (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-4#post-47443)
Trying to smear people with accusations of links to paedophilia is vile and unhinged. Going after the people from a fairly innocuous TV quiz show for no good reason is vile and unhinged.
Linehan is a nasty piece of work
[Kellie-Jay Keen] is a hard-right activist and a white nationalist. At least Linehan has a track record of something valuable to his credit, whatever you think of his monomania of recent years.
Quote from: AuroraSaabKeen is a women's rights activist. There are a lot of feminists who disagree with her willingness to go on stuff like Tucker Carlson to spread her message, but she's hardly a hard right activist.
Wow she must think it's weird how there are grand wizards, anti-abortionists and blokes in Fred Perry polo shirts everywhere she turns up for an interview.
I didn't read much of, nor contribute to, (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-5#post-47458) the CTC Gender Critical forum discussion
Quote from: winjimGoing after the people from a fairly innocuous TV quiz show for no good reason is vile and unhinged.
He didn't. I don't think he has an issue with them at all. What he took issue with was the programme allowing them to be presented as a Q+(?I think) couple, when they are just a straight couple. He felt that that was straight people effectively trying to devalue what it is to be gay or lesbian.
Quote from: AuroraSaabI don't know if you are talking about someone specific in regards to linking them to paedophilia or just commenting on his reporting of crimes where the alleged offender is male but reported as 'she'. I wouldn't call that unhinged or vile.
It was very specific and absolutely abhorrent.
there are actually two jokes
1. I identify as a(n) [insert noun]
2. My pronouns are [insert words which are not pronouns]
That's it. Them's the jokes.
It's possible to refer to Emily Bridges as 'she' and then discuss the unfairness in her competing in female categories.
Quote from: AuroraSaabThe whole point of using language like 'bigotry' and 'transphobic' is to shut down discussion. Noone wants to be thought to be unkind so they don't speak out even when they know what is being said is nonsense. It's how we have ended up where we are.
And this is the problem. Silencing one side of a discussion is never good or healthy. The zeal for "no platforming" at Universities is really quite abhorrent. They are supposed to be places to learn. You cannot learn if you only have one side of an argument.
I find (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-8#post-47721) I'm sometimes accused of having an opinion when I really don't.
Quote from: BromptonautHowever, to describe my former colleague Heather, or my son's friend who is going through transition as men would be bigotry.
To describe them as women would be misogyny. That doesn't seem to bother you though. I think you are choosing to be wilfully blind to the consequences that result from saying 'men can be women' because you don't want to seem unkind to your friends. So you'll do whatever mental and linguistic gymnastics it takes to avoid that. And when it comes to stuff like prisons you'll put your head in the sand and say 'Not my problem'.
This is simply chucking women under the bus so you can feel good about yourself.
Quote from: icowden…some Trans Women are inherently misogynistic in their view of women and how to live like a women. Dressing to look like a porn star for example, bilge like "Now that I'm living as a woman I cry a lot more". There is often a perception of "what a woman is" which does not gel with the lived experience of women. Some Trans Women are closer to David Walliams "I'm a lady" than the idea of being an actual woman.
I have met cis women that match those descriptions but the only trans woman I currently know is nothing like them. A small statistical sample, but it still makes me wonder about the relevance of your caricature.
we all want to be kind but none of us want to think about what that kindness costs others.
Quote from: BromptonautThe bottom line is it's their forum and their rules.
That's not a bottom line - what if their rules were illegal?
I’d like to think we can all agree that there is an infinitely large range of ways to live as a woman...
…I'm not going to allow myself (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-9#post-47829) to get pulled into having this argument because the point I'm making is that really I don't have to.
Quote from: AuroraSaabHere's one expert. (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/attachments/fbsc0mywyagorsz-jpg.2776/) Unfortunately there is a lot of ideological capture around this issue and people and institutions who should be talking common sense are either ignoring the science or afraid to speak out.
Is that the same person who claims that cycle lanes increase pollution?
your Gish-galloping through every thread on the topic makes you a wearisome opponent and seldom illuminates anything. I'll remind you that the current thread started with me introducing an alternative way of framing the subject which you completely refused to engage with, and here you are, innumerable thread acres later, with the same fear-mongering and tedious appeals to moustachioed authority dressed up as feminist debate.
The Gish Gallop is a rhetorical technique in which a person in a debate attempts to overwhelm their opponent by providing an excessive number of arguments with no regard for the accuracy or strength of those arguments.
Ha. I've just gone back and read my first contribution to this thread. I stand by it, especially the last sentence.
Sometimes (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-11#post-47890) it’s useful to be clear and not delude folk.
Quote from: BoldonLadNot one of my drinking pals had heard of Andrew Tait.
Strangely, despite not having the faintest idea who he is, none of them (including myself) had any sympathy with his views.
And that right there is the problem.
All this stuff is going on, but it's ignored and diminished as unimportant.
In the hope that it all just magically goes away by itself.
It's you that needs help - with English comprehension.
Quote from: UnkrautI agree the unhealthy spectrum covered by social media crosses traditional political boundaries. The porn stuff predates social media, but cancel culture and dissemination of fake news on such a large scale is a more recent phenomenon, although of course ultimately there is nothing new under the sun. (Or Sun!)
Tell me more about this 'cancel culture,' nasty views are all over the interwebs, and elsewhere.
Do you think the likes of Tate should be allowed to carry on spreading their message of hate unchecked.
In the name of 'free speech'??
Quote from: PoacherGood news @shep, you have a secret admirer
Wtf is going on there? (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-13#post-47944)
WTF? (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-14#post-47975)
I don't quite get it…
Quote from: mudsticksIf this chap finds us so fascinating 🧐
Or interesting enough, at least to chat about, why does he not just chat to us.
Where's the fun in that?
Quote from: AuroraSaabJust catching up on this thread and saw that someone mentioned litter trays. If you buy them at Pets at Home they are about £7. But if you go to Wilkinsons you can get seed trays that are actually heavier and often bigger for £3 - the Black Premium Gravel Tray. The sides aren't very high so no so good if you have a rabbit that likes to wee up walls (unneutered ones do sometimes), but they aren't on most litter trays anyway. We have a few of these and they are pretty much unchewable and I think our bunny finds them better to sit in because they are slightly textured as opposed to shiny plastic.
https://www.wilko.com/en-uk/wilko-black-premium-gravel-tray-52cm/p/0099388
Another thumbs up for Wilko gravel trays, but note they are now £4
Love the "Rod N. Cohn" on the door.
So where do trans women go to the toilet now? Only asking because I've never seen one in the gents. Do they use the ladies, and if they do, is there anyone checking their genitals on the way in?
Unless there's a gatekeeper to have a look/see they use female facilities for the most part undetected.
Quote from: UnkrautThere are none so blind as those who will not see.
AS's posting style is to not engage with the points being made, drag the conversation off sideways and then, when people make efforts to not allow her to set the agenda, argue that they aren't answering specific questions.
Quote from: AuroraSaab[nothing worth losing one's composure over] (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-25#post-48437)
Oh fark off.
I'm generally supportive of the trans community, and I'm no fan of culture wars 'moral panic'
However it's definitely the case that many women have very good reasons for wanting their own safe spaces. And those reasons and even the feelings surrounding those issues shouldn't be dismissed as irrelevant, nor shouted down with 'show me the stats'.
There really is a very simple solution to the whole problem. It starts with the word truth.
If anybody's still listening, send me a sign: start a topic about NACF.
…
Who cares? If this forum is gonna become a troll trolling exercise then I'm leaving and he can fark (https://youtu.be/alDvOOVtvnU)ing well win. The place is self referential enough as it is.
(https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/jimsaid.gif)
Sorry, the requested page or resource could not be found.
Kum bay ya, my Lord, kum bay ya …
<makes mental note to venture over to nacf to enjoy Sam's take on this>
Put the whole thread on ignore.
[Suitably devastating quote from USS Callister episode of Black Mirror. (https://howard-chai.medium.com/black-mirror-study-guide-uss-callister-73668085a837)]
Ĉu la angla estas via gepatra lingvo?
*pops into NACA for a rare nosey around*
*Sees @jowwy up to his usual tricks*
*Heads off to deal with much more mature 7 year olds*
Our antagonist is our helper.
You really aren't very good at this are you.
Quote from: the gimpNow I'm asking to to edit where you made the same erroneous claims in prior posts,
Technical point: We cannot edit or delete previous posts on this forum, beyond a short time (an hour I believe).
Blimey. (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-31#post-48805)
We're back at Wimbledon 2001, Pete Sampras in his prime, the king of Centre Court, expected to swat aside a callow Swiss teenager by the name of Roger Federer. But hang on, what are we seeing?
Truth emerges more readily from error than from confusion.
Dear God. I despair. (https://archive.ph/hj1VR#selection-2967.1-2967.8)
AuroraSaab: Genuine question though, Ian. I'm going to assume you're a heterosexual. Would you date a transwoman? Fair enough if you think it's a private matter and don't wish to answer.
Ian H: There are limits to what I'll discuss on an open forum.
AuroraSaab: No problem. I was just trying to get my head around the 'sometimes they're in the male category, sometimes they're in the female, depending on context' thing.
multitool:
(https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/nuanceparrot.jpg)
shep: Yes or No would do, not really a discussion.
Bromptonaut: I guess the answer could be less Yes/No and more along the line of it's complicated.
I've come around. If you say trans women are women, and you're a heterosexual man lookin’ for love,
trans women belong in your dating pool. Same goes for women who are reactionary enough to have a predisposition to coupling exclusively with those with male [sic] anatomy. Gay guys and lesbians don't get a pass either, if they're true believers. (https://factcheckme.wordpress.com/2012/03/13/the-cotton-ceiling-really/#comment-10133)
While it's none of my business whom you invite under the sheets, cognitive dissonance is a turn-off.
Your only out is to admit that you are in fact transphobic as defined by the social media powers that be.
It took the hagiographer (https://www.vice.com/en/article/wjq99z/why-cant-my-famous-gender-nonconforming-friends-get-laid) of instagram influencer Alok Vaid-Mennon to make me see the error of my ways. As India Willoughby put it (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-42652947) way back in the mists of 2018, "all this superficial stuff that you are a woman and all that sounds great and is the right thing to say. But it makes no difference if people don't believe it - that's the problem."
Don't be the problem: be the solution.
[Nonsense on stilts] (https://archive.ph/VOQAF#selection-1877.83-1877.92)
(https://i.imgur.com/b0DYk8P.jpg)
And now, I'm giving up with you too.
You realise you are dismissing the views of the majority of women, don't you?
I think @multitool is saying that we should try it first, collect data on the number of rapes and assaults, and then consider doing something about it. It's very important that women get attacked first so that we can make sure we protect them afterwards.
Are they? I thought they were suggesting we should look for evidence where it already exists.
I don't discount the fears of anybody. But I do want to know if those fears are justified. Do you?
Quote from: BurgooWhat does the data show? Not what you have experienced or what friends have. But the actual number of times this happens in a year? You can only really judge whether an emotion is reasonable based on how realistic the threat is. If it is 1% that is one thing, if it is 80% that is another.
And also to counter your mansplaining - do you think that every time a woman is flashed at, groped, watched, been cat-called, had a heavy-breathing man sit right near her fondling his thigh she reports it and it becomes 'data'?
You're dreaming. Women's experiences of men's violence and unwanted attention are so much part of the wallpaper of our lives to be invisible - fuck - rape is practically legal the few times it is reported and a man is charged let alone cases that make it to court and those deemed to have sufficient evidence to succeed.
Imagine for instance that in a parallel world there was in existence another type of human.. Not man or woman, as such, but a bit more like a genderless, or even all gendered human-bear, still very human, a lot of the time just fine, very nice even, they are part of normal society, bear-people have relationships with either sex of non bear people, and most of the time things are fine...
Scottish Self ID is being misrepresented as allowing men to change on a whim purely for the purposes of perving. It doesn't. It just reduces the time from 2 years to 3 months. It's still a substantial and significant legal undertaking on the part of the man who wishes to become regarded as a woman in law.
Look, you are right, it's a hard thing to discuss...
Some people are worthy interlocutors. Some aren't.
looks like I have found a second person for my mute button!
never announce that you’re leaving the discussion. [Muting: same deal.] This cannot be stressed enough. If you want to go, just go. Some warriors are amazed this is even an option.
One happy bunny. (https://youtu.be/JxKx-BBWX8Q)
Quote from: winjimI just tossed a coin and got five heads in a row.
It might be that your coin has heads on both sides.
I mean obviously we're about to bore on about opportunities in the music industry and the reasons for having awards for music in the first place and discrimination and influence on the young and role modelling and the position of art in society and all that jazz. It's an interesting cultural discussion but I'm not sure I'm about to gain anything intellectually by shouting about it on this forum. We'll see where it goes.
?
There appears to be indifference to possible actual harm that could be done to women if transwomen are given free access to otherwise women only spaces.
Could it possibly be that far from there being indifference to possible harms to women, these MSPs spent a considerable portion of the six years considering it, in minute detail and with the benefit of counter-arguments to consider, and concluded that the 'possible harms' from the Bill were not, in fact, realistic harms. After all, they had the experience of 30+ other countries, some with a decade of self ID with which to inform them.
…one of those countries (https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4721156-good-morning-britain-helen-joyce-today?page=6&reply=123146749) is Pakistan, with over 230 million people, and it's extremely unlikely that Pakistan would collect careful statistics on how self-id has affected sexual assaults against women. Several other countries with self-id are not complete feminist paradises (Malta (where abortion is illegal), several South and Central American countries), and as far as I can tell Ireland chose not to collect any statistical information on the possible impact of the self-id law so the information does not exist. It looks like Belgium, also, is either not gathering the data or not publishing it.
So we don't really know what the impact might be. But some of it will come from the fact that when facilities become mixed sex it is harder to raise alarm as male people would have an excuse for being in women's single-sex facilities and, in some countries, a woman complaining about that could be fined (I think Norway can do this). I think the impact would be a diffuse one, perhaps causing some women to self-exclude from various activities, and for other women to re-calibrate their ideas about what spaces are safe and when.
Stupid little prick…. (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/this-thread-does-not-exist-cheers-jim.432/page-2#post-49350)i bet that was you last night making the sex noises on the bbc as you was sucking off the old codgers at the back of the stands.
fOlLoW tHe mONeY (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-39#post-49291)
rent free (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/starmers-vision-quest.32/page-80#post-49267)
Rent free, indeed. (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-40#post-49334)
I wonder how many of the audience actually understand that Ricky is repeating exactly what's being said to women on twitter. SNAP (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-42#post-49405)
Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.
For the ignorant (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-42#post-49415) and the bigoted: [BBC Thought for the Day]
It's not tolerance that you are demanding though, it's capitulation.
No women had an issue being tolerant until it involved the wholesale undermining of women's rights and language.
Trying to frame women's rights as bigoted simply won't wash either.
I've actually got you on ignore. Occasionally I click the "reveal hidden posts" button at the bottom of the page, and there you are. Every single time. Rent free.
Deal with the wrong thinking (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-45#post-49553)
I'm probs a bit more live and let live in most circumstances
Quote from: AuroraSaabDo you think saying sex is binary and immutable is disparaging, dehumanising, or hateful?
If it's said (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-45#post-49554) sufficiently stridently & aggressively, then yes.
I personally find what some other members say more appalling than whatever comes out of j's mouth
you guys (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-46#post-49564) literally had this exact same discussion [about an opinion piece in Scientific American] about two weeks ago.
I've a disability, but this thread has many similar themes running through it. It's the fear of the unknown, it shows through every time this subject comes up.
@multitool
Auroraphobia
I'm not liking the look at the 'extremists' at either end of this 'debate'
I'd pause for thought (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-48#post-49640) about my contribution to the 'othering' of minority groups
Look, take the last word.
My starting point (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-49#post-49662) is that Transwomen should be treated as women.
Any increase in risk to those born female which that poses needs to be managed and mitigated.
protecting one woman from rape is more important than validating the genderfeelings of all the transwomen in the entire fucking world.
[More catnip to multitool. (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-50#post-49690) Pic of Keen looking almost unrecognisable if you've only seen her in "drag", along with husband, who probably should've been cropped out, but let's make this as personal as possible.]
The distraction is so clear. Look over here is evil!!! Evil, I tell you!
No… don’t listen to her. Don’t listen to her saying that children and teens are on irreversible medical treatments because they express they feel like the opposite sex. Don’t look at the paucity of evidence that affirming only treatment and those drugs and surgeries are the best treatments.
Don’t look at the rapidly growing evidence of females of any gender being raped, impregnated and abused in prisons because some males want to be housed in female prisons.
Don’t look at women’s sports and the facts that even the IOC has declared that inclusion should be prioritised over fairness- the IOC!! How much do they hate women and girls!
Don’t look at the women begging for female single sex spaces being ignored and abused. No! No! Don’t look at the Rape Crisis Centres vilifying women for asking for just one group to be female only out of a ‘women’s’ group, an LGBTQ + group and a men’s group!
Don’t look at the rapes occurring in NHS hospital wards!
Don’t look at what happens in sexist sectors when sex segregation is removed for rewarding performance! I mean, who the fuck ever thought the entertainment industry would be sexist? Really?
No! no!
Holocaust (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-46#post-49570) denial!
Right wing listening to words!
Sparple! Sparple! Sparple!
have you thought about being kind
I'm a bit late but would like all the men to know that being kind is over, it's dead, it's been cremated and never coming back.
It's Hells Fury o'clock.
All I can say about KJK is she gives me courage and motivates me to not be sacred and to get off the couch to do something IRL to show my opposition to Gender Ideology and how dangerous it is to women and children. How the TRAs are getting away with all this insanity is by intimidating and frightening people, especially women. The majority disagree with them but people don’t speak up at work and in public because of how they believe they will be persecuted and socially ostracized. This is demonstrated when KJK and other women go outside to give their views in public (about anything) and the opposition is an angry threatening crowd, with many men willing to cover their faces and physically attack women.
I have no time for anyone that criticizes KJK while not first denouncing this aggressive and intimidating behavior and asking all demonstrators in opposition to her to show their faces and refrain from wearing Black Bloc. There is literally no comparison to men publically intimating and physically attacking women and women speaking.
If we spend all our time waiting for the perfect voice, we'll never hear one. Glinner and Posie Parker have their faults but who the fuck else was sticking their neck out on this.
If we don't all scream at the top of our voices, we will get drowned in a vomit-wave of Be Kind/Tiny Minority/Just Want To Pee.
I love listening to KJK. It is just such a relief to hear her speak. I feel like I can breathe again when I hear her thanks to her honest language and the moral code she presents of dialogue with all parties, avoiding purity spirals, genuinely caring about and listening to ordinary women, an unwavering dedication to protecting children.
The language of gender identity and queer theory is so suffocating and silencing. KJK brushes it all away and brings fresh air back.
I love the fact that she scares the shit out of everyone by doing nothing except telling the truth and calling things by their names. She's a tactical genius and I'm bloody grateful she's on the side of women and children.
It is a debate about very complicated issues, which I accept I also do not know (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-51#post-49723) a great deal about
Why do you think I've essentially given up contributing? You can't make jokes, you can't even admit you don't have all the answers, you can't even try to keep the discussion relevant to a limited and specific aspect of the situation without having your words twisted, opinions ascribed to you that you don't hold, having your own sex flamed, your arguments diverted into meaningless whataboutery. There's no point.
@winjim uses the discussion process to interrogate and develop his thoughts on the matter, rather than steamrollering through the thread with a set of granitic certainties and getting defensive at every minor challenge thereto.
How many terfs does it take to change a lightbulb?
None. It will always be a lightbulb.
…The excessive use of reason is offensive. (https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4743069-batshit-biologists?page=2&reply=123913220)
Quote from: AuroraSaabDo you think saying sex is binary and immutable is disparaging, dehumanising, or hateful?
If it's said sufficiently stridently & aggressively, then yes.
Quote from: wafterThat's unfortunate, if not surprising. I'd be mentioning the words "unfit for purpose" and "Trading Standards" soon..
And the fact that you have an ENORMOUS following among cyclists on social media and feel like adding a signature line to your posts, saying "Kinesis think it is acceptable for their £2,000 frames to fail in less than 5 years with only 11,000 miles ridden"…
We need to remember that the political spectrum is made up of four areas, not the two that the politicians in this country want to reduce matters to because it allows the manipulative narrative of 'you are either with us or against us'.
In this sense the liberal left and right SHOULD be united on this and that's a GOOD thing. You would also expect to see the illiberal authoritarian left pitted against the right - from the far right to the liberal right because that's the normal left v right thing too. The thing is that the illiberal left is terrified of the unity of the liberal left and right so the only tool in the box they have is to try and tar the liberal left.
Hell is other people.
– Traditional
Quote from: AuroraSaabpeople can read all the posts
I can only admire the optimism. (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-100#post-51385)
Even Sam's got bored (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-86#post-50983) and given up.
Quote from: jowwyYou really have go a high opinion of yourself……just a shame its only your opinion though. The rest just think your an idiot and when you type, they are proved right.
I must confess that on occasion your théâtre de l'absurde living art installation goes over my head, but this time I've understood what you are doing. You are fashioning a reply to a given person's post, but choosing to post it quoting a random person's post (in this instance, me) thus provoking both chaos and unintended and undirected introspection.
It's genius.
A kind of post post-modern commentary on meaning(lessness), whilst also touching on both the ephemeral and socially disconnected nature of modern communication and the fragilité of human relationships. Would I be correct in thinking that it is perhaps also a coquettish nod to the Sisyphean nature of this thread, hmmmm?
I have literally no idea of where you plan to take us on this anarchic journey, but I must tell you I am excited. This is the best thing to happen on cycling fora for some time!
Quote from: Rusty NailsI started off wanting to know more about the issue and at the start it was very illuminating, but for a while now has generated far more heat than light. There is some occasional stuff of interest but has to be searched for amidst the acrimony and mud-slinging whataboutery over which side has the nastiest supporters and which is twisting the other's words.
The actions of a few extremists aren't really relevent to my thoughts on the subject, which to me is sex and gender, not specifically trans and women's rights.
Blimey! (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-81#post-50896) A lot of words have been written since I partially switched off
My effort here is to try to be an explainer, a buster of myths, and lies, and promoter (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-82#post-50898) of truth, even where it sounds unpalatable.
My policy is not to engage with absolutists (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-69#post-50463)
In the USA freedom of a kind of absolute freedom of speech is guaranteed by the constitution. What the constitution could not have foreseen was the internet and social media. Combine the oppression of the vulnerable by one political party in particular, the media, in the name of freedom of speech, add the availability of guns and you can be sure to see people who are driven mad doing mad things.
You've written that reply to me as if you are addressing a man. (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-71#post-50536) You do know that I'm not, right?
The trans women I know would wish to have been born female rather face the lengthy battles they endure to have that status. (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-72#post-50553)
As usual (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-74#post-50618) I find myself having to repeat what I have said before.
Discussion with you is just hopeless. (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-186#post-56830)
I find your long winded convoluted essays as tiresome as you find mine. (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-75#post-50638)
There is no (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-72#post-50549) legal tension between the rights of women and trans women, just a perception that there is.
Gender critical people believe (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-62#post-50239) that 'sex in binary and immutable'. Modern scientist who are specialists in this field say that it really isn't.
These days there is attack (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-186#post-56833) from the left wing from the TERFs
I agree with a lot of what you say. What I disagree (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-62#post-50257) with is the attempts (often by both sides of the debate) to terrorise and silence people.
A good-to-read (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-71#post-50513) article in Pink News yesterday.
Within these walls we (mostly) have a group of open minded, educated and reasonably well informed people struggling to get their heads around something which is clearly very complex and highly emotive to those that it impacts. I am disappointed at the petty nastiness shown toward people trying to debate in good faith and challenging their own beliefs.
There's literally nothing (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-152#post-55822) that would make you pause for a minute and think about the impact of gender ideology on young people, girls, and women. Literally nothing. Not men in women's jails or sports, not kids at the Tavistock being rushed into transition, not the growing number of detransitioners.
Faux concern for girls as ammunition for your monobore confected obsession. You went down the rabbit hole. The rest of us know this stuff is fantasy and bears no relation to the real world, despite your endless screenshots from transhate sites.
Quote from: AuroraSaab to monkersThe mental (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-154#post-55857) gymnastics you're prepared to do to convince yourself are astounding.
Wouldn't gymnastics take the singular verb form here; "is astounding"?
And does this mean that being exercised about trans issues could serve as a prophylactic against Alzheimer's in the same way as cryptic crosswords, classical music, learning another language?
The reason I bother stick my head above the parapet on this is because if we here cannot debate this here with a generally liberal and reasonable positive and open-minded bunch of minds without resorting to nastiness, how the bloody hell are we to effect any change in mindset from debate within wider society at large?
What happened last weekend in New Zealand isn’t confined to one side of an otherwise principled political debate, in which a few bad actors are spoiling things for everyone else. It’s the latest instance of a post-democratic style of politics now well on its way to being the new normal.
Policy Exchange’s vital report today has demonstrated that there is a mass breaching of safeguarding principles when it comes to the issue of gender-distressed children and their peers.
Is it time for a new Multitool avatar? (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-162#post-56043)
The truth is that the subculture that has grown up around trans identities too often excuses, legitimises, and even glorifies violence... This goes hand-in-hand with a toxic dynamic called phobia indoctrination: the attempt to instil irrational fears in members of a high-control group in order to manipulate them.(https://i.imgur.com/cy5l669.gif) (https://twitter.com/OwenJHurcum/status/1641358534154526720)
There’s no clearer example of how phobia indoctrination operates within trans communities than the invention and propagation of ‘trans genocide’ narratives.
Quote from: PriOn1Trans day of vengeance? (https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4774166-trans-day-of-vengeance-protest-continues-as-planned-following-nashville-shooting?reply=125035954)
I know transactivism gets a pass for all kinds of questionable behaviour, but nobody sane will see the word vengeance and think it justified. They just won’t. Visibility, pride, remembrance… these are all either peaceful or positive (or both).
Their protests against women have neither been peaceful, nor positive in recent months, but to actually say the quiet part out loud suggests to me that they are genuinely losing the plot badly and have moved far beyond the realms of what any sane person would see as justifiable.
I hope they go ahead with this and that it is given as much publicity as the press can give. Vengeance is not a good look.
We are planning a counter protest:
Terfs Day of Tea cakes.
It's not going to be as aggressive, unless someone accidentally brings rock cakes instead of tea cakes.
At the risk of self polluting (https://youtu.be/tRBSnwWwWEE) the thread…
Normally it's a bit of a pain but not too much hassle as my phone has my login stored. Today though I was writing a fairly lengthy post which I'd put some thought into and the forum logged me out and deleted it…
Most of the post was saved but there was a particularly witty and erudite paragraph which has sadly been lost in the ether. It's a shame because it was a paragon of perspicacity which I sure would have convinced all who read it of the veracity of the argument made therein.
jowwster, who is simply a different variety of Joker from multitool.
Careful. You might turn into another Sam. (https://youtu.be/c08DKsGMMo0?t=144)
I'm just a snarky git with a good forum memory
I take a very different position to Sam on the subject (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-18#post-48159) under discussion, but posting things on CC has long been one of the ways I work out what I think about things. If you don't create a meaningful community where complex subjects can be ranged over, unpicked, skimmed, plumbed, or allowed to ping off in other directions, it's hardly surprising if what you get is entrenchment, amongst the community and at the margins of it.
An interesting article on sex difference:
https://psyche.co/ideas/what-sex-difference-science-misses-about-the-messy-reality-of-sex
Probably best that the aphantasics, like Aurora, don't read it.
There’s an early memory from my childhood, representative of its peak happiness. I’m on a simple, iron child’s seat on my father’s bike. He’s just picked me up from kindergarten and is taking me home through the forest on the way to our house. It is a spectacularly fluorescent Danish spring, and we’re travelling through woodland illuminated, from above, by the light-green foliage of the tall beeches only just coming into soft leaves and, from below, by snow-white forest anemones spreading around us in dense, endless carpets.
Bringing this scene to my mind, I don’t ‘see’ anything. I have aphantasia, the neurological condition of being unable to visualise imagery, also described as the absence of the ‘mind’s eye’.
In this short film, the French Canadian filmmaker and set designer Jean-François Boisvenue explores how a lifetime of precarious mental health culminated in an excruciating period of depersonalisation in his early 20s. Using animated light displays projected onto his body to convey his sense of discord, Boisvenue recalls how depersonalisation swept over him, upending his sense of self and reality for months before he was able to heal.
while sex is an important part of our biology and society, the search for biological differences can lead us astray, too.
what science can tell us about sex is often far removed from what we actually care about
are sceptical of arguments that men and women have fundamentally different abilities, arguing instead that they have innately different preferences. In other words, these scholars do not argue that women are incapable of doing what men do, but rather that they are biologically programmed to want other things...
‘Hype and hyperbole’ distort both the public’s and scientists’ understanding of sex differences to make them seem more common and larger than they really are.
Reading essentialist scientific descriptions of sex differences can make people endorse gender stereotypes more, even if the science is about sex in plants.
Our political, social and even most of the biological interest in sex lies elsewhere, in myriad sex-related things including hormone levels, muscle and fat distribution, body hair, voice pitch, physical and mental abilities, personality traits and preferences, and so on. Unlike gametes or chromosomes, these are things we see, hear and feel, and none of them are remotely binary or fixed.
Interesting take on the "scenes" from Australia, NZ.
Those of us with (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-193#post-57396)out diseased minds saw a huge number of non-trans people showing up because they didn't want that little fascist cûnt stirring up hate in their country.
Posie farking-Yaxley Robinson has just cancelled her trip to Dublin...citing a clash with Joe Biden's visit bwa ha ha haha. Like the city isn't big enough for the two of them (https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/laughing.gif) (https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/laughing.gif) (https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/laughing.gif)
Little Kellie knows the game is up. She's niche. Real niche. Most people aren't hate-filled cùnts.
I don't respect you or your views... They are horrid, mealy-mouthed, manipulative and dishonest and your tactics are cheap, base and dishonest. You rely on misrepresentation and straight up lying.
AuroraSaab: It's not just KJK events that the people you cheer on turn up at though. They turn up wherever women are meeting to discuss women's rights. They try to get women sacked or cancelled for stuff as basic as saying biology is real and sex matters. And they use the language that you use on here. The aim of course isn't to stop KJK talking. The aim is to make all women afraid to talk, meet, and organise.
monkers: They are protesting the hate. Trans rights are human rights too.
multitool: "All Women." There you go again with your dishonest bullshït. You do not speak for all women…
icowden to monkers: By punching women in their 60s and silencing women across the country. It's a bit pot and kettle...
multitool: Every single protestor punched a 60 year old, did they? How do you know they "silenced women across the country"? Half the protestors WERE women.
because I respect women's views and privilege them over my own, that is who I listen to.
My views on the transgender issue are quite simple. I can understand the difference between one's sex and gender and perfectly well understand there are people whose gender does not match their birth sex and wish to transition. These people need to be able to lead the life they wish without criticism or abuse. I can also understand the limited number of occasions such as some physical sports or use of traditionally single sex facilities such as toilets, where they are not allowed to have exactly the same access rights as their chosen gender...unless the vast majority of that gender have no issues and are prepared to accept them. There are limits to absolute freedom and rights within any society depending on the mores of that society. I do not consider it transphobic to have concerns about these issues.
The issue is complicated by aspects such as what form of criteria are acceptable for gender change recognition ranging from a simple declaration to gender re-assignment surgery, and I do not yet have a view on what the criteria should be.
I view the most extreme and abusive supporters of either side of the argument, in this country and the US, with equal distaste and do not believe the views of those extremes to be any reasonable guide to the views of most people on either side. I am not a great supporter of 'the right is on my side' or 'they started it' when it comes to verbal or physical abuse or threats, believing that they just deepen the polarisation. The tweet above about that woman protesting at the school's action over her child's transition actually proves nothing about the issues involved, nor makes any resolution easier, but is about apportioning blame and a further reflection of this polarisation.
This thread should be an opportunity for all issues to be discussed, as I believe was Claud's aim in starting it, but sadly it has turned toxic and is far too much about apportionment of blame.
multitool: What on earth makes you think I care less what you think? Have I not been clear enough
Rusty Nails: Rent Free (https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/rolleyes.gif)
multitool: The last thing you do is occupy any space in my head, pal (https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/laughing.gif)
The difference between the almost right word and the right word is really a large matter. ’tis the difference between the lightning bug and the lightning.
it is clear that he has lost his mind
those of us without diseased minds
I'm going to introduce a concept that will blow Aurora's mind
hate cultist Maya Forster loses her mind
If women's rights and safety and well being were properly respected, if women and their needs their diversity even, were not so often disregarded, then we wouldn't need to be having this discussion.
Never mind 'rusty 'we need some 'hard as'
We can't just have you being mildly to moderately concerned, taking a measured view, listening carefully, considering all viewpoints or any of that tedious anodyne, wishy washy
"Well I can see some valid views on both sides" kind of liberal hogwash..
You must very very firmly
'Nail' your colours to the mast, pick a 'side' like it's 'serious' battle, and start spilling some blood OK??
I mean this is t'internet right ??
Isn't it good (https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4778611-i-know-many-are-sceptical-re-matt-walsh-but-this-is-so-worth-watching?page=2&reply=125194574) to see what happens in a room when no one is shouted down, heckled, where mistruths are immediately challenged, where everyone is given space to talk.
[Trans] people need to be able to lead the life they wish without criticism or abuse.
And Jesus spake unto them saying, "she/he/they who is without sin, murder the first 3 children, and add onto that 3 adults for good measure." And the crowd put down their stones and took up their guns, ready to spread the gospel of the good news to all nations: that vengeance is not the Lord's, as the prophets of old had taught, but "hate has consequences."
The Gospel of The Apostle Saint Judith (she/they) 13:69
Are gender critical women stopping the nuns from speaking? Are they chucking soup over them or punching them in the face? Or carrying sign suggesting they should be decapitated?
You seem to be trying to give the impression that feminists are stopping other women from speaking. They aren't. That would be 'your' side. I asked before but you didn't reply: Can you find me any photos of gender critical women turning up at trans demos or meetings to abuse and intimidate them?
Look, if you truly 'pass' (https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4745819-trans-and-losing-my-mind?page=3&reply=124017067) (in all likelihood you don't, but women have been too polite to say so), then by definition nobody will notice and there's no issue as nobody wants genital police. Though I'm sure there's a pornhub category for it.
The problem is when you normalise men who can't be questioned for being where they shouldn't be. Like so. (https://reduxx.info/canada-mother-threatened-with-arrest-after-confronting-male-watching-girls-undress-in-changing-room-at-nanaimo-swimming-pool/)
I view the most extreme and abusive supporters of either side of the argument, in this country and the US, with equal distaste
Much Frothing is a bucolic little place populated by purple-faced retired colonels with shotguns and cirrhosis, and their wives who spend their time sewing, cooking, and shredding their neighbours' reputations over garden fences.
There are mountains to be climbed, but this really isn't one of them. In fact it's a bit like everesting on a molehill.
Are you people for real? (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/twitter-under-musk.234/page-39#post-58048)
Quote from: qigong chimpI envy women being pre-endowed with a clutch of eggs from the off, needing only to unwrap one from time to time, while men - the true creatives in the reproductive endeavour - must toil and strain to manufacture from scratch, ex nihilo, gazillions of energetic, fleet-footed, keen sperms.
No wonder men die younger.
This is the only content I'm here for at this stage of the thread.
It's the day before my birthday, but don't let that alarm you.
I've said that free speech is the right to speak, but not the right to demand that university students be made to listen.
Be careful what you wish for.
As Helen Joyce says, the anti-reality position is not one that people reason themselves into, so it's not one that they can be reasoned out of.
Let men in women's spaces.
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It's handy how CC lets you doctor quotes, isn't it?
Quote from: AuroraSaabgenuine dysphoria
Who decides if it is “genuine”, and on what evidence?
[armchair psychiatrist] (https://youtu.be/1h9xCEVKwtg)
Quote from: classic33Women aren't the danger, only men.
Bingo.
I haven't (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-212#post-58582) mentioned 'Stonewall Law'. That's because it doesn't even exist - just another invention.
there are a good number of geneticists who disagree that sex in humans is binary
An exchange between one honest actor posting in good faith and one dishonest actor acting in bad faith is not a discussion.
I can't remember the specifics of an interminable debate with you, who lies, dissemble, distorts at every turn. Pretty obvious I am more in touch with women's views than you are, which is to be expected of a zealot.
I think (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-218#post-58688) Winston is deliberately unkind in his choice of words - no wonder the trans [activist] community consider him a transphobe. (https://youtu.be/pFHVV_GcykI?t=46)
As a female (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-212#post-58591) cyclist you're probably more at risk of harm from Robert Winston than you are from trans women.
Whatever the source of the public’s confusion, it’s a testament to the dogged persistence of the LGBT+ lobbying sector that there is meaningful disagreement about the matter at all. For however you look at the polling, it still suggests that a significant proportion of the general population now think adult human males can change their sex by some kind of behavioural process — whether that’s a medical, legal, or merely sartorial one, or even just muttering “I’m a woman now” to your lawyer as the prospect of a male prison looms.
This bizarre epistemic situation did not arise on its own. Lamentable as the national standard of secondary school biology probably is, it still seems unlikely that many of us have mixed up human beings with sequential hermaphrodites.
Oh (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-219#post-58714) shut the fark up you stupid windbag. You really are too much.
The more I listen (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-127#post-52666) to a variety of voices on this matter, the more I become convinced that the most happiness and contentment in the world will come from tolerance, acceptance, welcoming even,bonus link (https://www.notanothercyclingforum.net/index.php?topic=5571.msg17110#msg17110) rather than a hard line based upon a configuration of chromosomes...
Zealous repetition of the same points in a practiced politician-like way pushes me back towards a more nuanced centre ground. But, as I’ve said before, I’m still learning and open to persuasion.
in respect (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-216#post-58662) of your debating techniques:a welcome lapse into humour from Aurora. Captioning museum (https://www.notanothercyclingforum.net/index.php?topic=961.0) artefacts is a woefully underrated means of communication.
(https://i.imgur.com/BlIvEAK.jpg)
Perhaps you could similarly reflect on whether your persistent personal abuse, evident on this and other threads, has enhanced NACA or discouraged people from posting.
My fear is that the public will start tending to think that all women are devoid of critical thinking skills.
the message left at my niece's house when it was vandalised, and in the biggest letters read 'Rowlings Rulz'.
What people will always get from me is the truth.
What some women are asking for now are more rights, not equal rights, extra rights.
Still it has been an entertainment, rather than an education.(Actually it's both, depending on your tolerance for entertainment (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-228#post-58960))
On any political topic, (https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4513788-Posie-Parker-on-Fox-News?page=6&reply=116881013) the vast majority of the population aren't even vaguely aware of it.
I don't recall who said this, but there's a general rule here - if you're involved or interested in a topic, then by the time you're absolutely sick of hearing it and think there's nothing more to say, and it's being flogged to death in the media - that's about the point the median citizen will first notice it and say "what's all this about then?"
Stuff like JK Rowling tweeting about Alex Drummond yesterday, which in turn got it into the Daily Mail today. For a huge number of people, that will be their very first concept of the idea of a "beardy lesbian".
We have to keep hammering away at this, over and over and over, just to raise consciousness. Which means people like Posie going onto platforms like Carlsons with huge numbers of "normie" viewers who do not spend their lives on Twitter in the middle of GC vs TRA bunfights.
I can’t recall any great campaigns that were won by squeaking mice
I respect (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-81#post-50896) Monkers' intention to offer a counterweight to fear and panic
It doesn't take elite search skills to find women that think trans people should be put to death just for existing, never mind freely associate or organise.
I found this TED talk (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-143#post-54976) powerful, thought provoking, and moving.
if there are infinite ways for our bodies to look, for minds to think, personalities to act, wouldn't it make sense that there's that much variety in biological sex too?
When intersex is mentioned on social media, the information is frequently inaccurate and the different bodies of children and young people are described as being ‘neither male or female’ or as third, fourth, fifth or even sixth sexes – and frequent memes are produced that use our bodies, as a way to validate diverse gender identities. Whilst mis-gendering is considered profoundly offensive, the same respect is not given to people with DSD.
That's an extremely long winded way of avoiding the question. (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-228#post-58967)
If brains were actually gunpowder you'd even fail to manage to blow your own hat off.
Enough ribaldry at the 'hands' of others...
I grew some very (https://archive.ph/aEYUY) beautiful radishes (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/feb/03/queer-farmers-bipoc-agriculture-midwest)Page 3 radish(https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/ruderadish.jpg) (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7190023/oap-gardener-grows-penis-shaped-radish/)[close]
Chaos abounds.
[Embedded tweets by the Witchfinder (https://archive.is/Y6qgo) General (https://www.notanothercyclingforum.net/index.php?topic=6665.msg16603#msg16603), James O'Brien (https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3606802-James-O-Brien-I-categorically-wouldn-t-fancy-a-woman-with-a-penis-title-edited-by-MNHQ?reply=87655159) (keeper from that link: 'You only gave me the shirt off your back. I wanted the skin'), and Dara Ó Briain, who is cursed (https://twitter.com/notCursedE/status/1066304058816892930) with an unspellable name.]
In no particular order
Mhairi Black (https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3628675-Mhairi-Black?page=1), Caroline Lucas (https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-caroline-lucas-fell-foul-of-the-transgender-thought-police/), Nicola (https://youtu.be/Fc_u_Uy2hQ8) Sturgeon (https://www.notanothercyclingforum.net/index.php?topic=1570.msg16643#msg16643), Diane Abott (https://twitter.com/BanCTorg/status/1524079615865671682), Molly Scott Cato (https://www.beatrixcampbell.co.uk/bad-dreams-greens-and-gender/), Stella Creasy (https://unherd.com/2022/05/stella-creasys-bourgeois-feminism/), Jeremy Corbyn (https://www.thepinknews.com/2022/11/15/jeremy-corbyn-trans-awareness-week/)
There is a lot going on here.
Just heard the best description of our beloved home secretary ever.
'You vacuous, disingenuous, fact avoiding slurry truck of a woman'
[Googled quote (https://twitter.com/Lorna_TVeditor/status/1642878366373265408) > Scrolled down Lorna's feed > All roads end here (https://twitter.com/Lorna_TVeditor/status/1649823453850001410)]
He and three others had been on trial for causing a public nuisance by blocking a busy junction in the City of London on 25 October 2021 as part of the Insulate Britain climate campaign.
icowden: In other news, this looks like good use of taxpayers money (not): Insulate Britain protesters jailed for defying road blockade ban (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-59307679)
AuroraSaab: It might seem harsh when you look at what people get for violence, but I'd say those are clearly deterrent sentences.
theclaud: This you? (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-211#post-58533)
You could give Jonathan Daly (https://twitter.com/jondaly/status/1377352829430419457)'s comparative history a go.
[Oops, wrong Jon Daly]
Quote from: fozy tornipWhere do we all stand on flan-only spaces?
Not a problem because pastry is on a spectrum.
Bloody culture wars - is nothing safe?
Just standing up for women's rights
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c870jlym68zo
There's a mahoosive moral panic afoot.
Transwomen aren't men.
Your constant misgendering shows a total lack of respect
@monkers and I may have differing opinions but I think that we debate each other respectfully. You, on the other hand, are just rude and unpleasant. Perhaps you should consider how to win us over.
The aim isn't to win people over. The aim is to shut down debate.
I critique Aurora's views, but also her tactics which are fundamentally dishonest. So does Monkers, in far more robust terms than I, icow. Is that misogyny on her part too?
There are also odd and unfair parallels being drawn between trans women and drag queens which would appear to be imported manufactured outrage from the very Conservative US of A.
I've had enough of you insulting my family. When I said 'fark off' that wasn't a heat of the moment thing. I think your heart is cold - just like a fascist.
I can't see any problem if women would only compromise, says a bloke. (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-235#post-59495)
^ (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-234#post-59469) This is the nub of it.
We are a manifestation of the universe experiencing itself and nothing actually matters unless and until we decide it does.
Gotta love a good forum schism.
I became an ACF unperson back in '08
Quote from: craigwendWe don't talk about the other place…
First rule of the other place is…
for those who haven't already lost the will to live.
I foolishly thought she was an honest interlocutor.
For what it's worth, I believe very little of what you post on here, whether it's personal anecdotes, essays on flaccid penises, or your wishful thinking on UK law.
The one thing you could get correct though is the acronym for the site name. It's been News, Current Affairs & Politics (NCA&P) since it was started.
All one needs to say (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-241#post-59631) is 'trans women' then we know as much as we need to know.
As feminists we understand the importance of resisting patriarchal language. And we understand that language can either illuminate a subject, or it can obscure the reality of it. And I think the way in which we illuminate the subject is to use very clear, direct language which names the reality that we perceive.
icowden to multitool: Piss off moron. Come back to me when you are capable of civilised debate. Just because you think that Drag queens are Transwomen, doesn't mean the rest of us do.
newfhouse: Do you think these deplorables possess or encourage your degree of nuanced thought?
Rusty Nails: A very rare concept on this thread, sadly.
multitool: That depends.
The GC position is one of cast-iron singularity. Refusal to accept that 'woman' or 'man' might, can, or could mean slightly different things in different contexts ie. in law, socially, biologically etc.
The trans rights/anti-bigot position is to accept these nuances.
I view the thread as pointless, and a pure waste of my time. I intend to spend my retirement more gainfully with less anxiety.
biologically men are there to impregnate as many women as possible to make babies. Women are there to be impregnated and create new offspring to propagate the species.
Those of us with (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-193#post-57396)out diseased minds saw a huge number of non-trans people showing up because they didn't want that little fascist cûnt stirring up hate in their country…
Little Kellie knows the game is up. She's niche. Real niche. Most people aren't hate-filled cùnts.
I'm surrounded by women and we talk.(https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/ladiesman.jpg)
it is for the reader to discern between truth and gish gallop(https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/gishgallop.jpg)
My former colleague Heather, (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-272#post-60941) formerly Barry, has had the drugs and the surgery. She has a GRC. She was way beyond child bearing age by the time she started to transition and many other women of her age are also without a uterus.
For all practical purposes she has changed sex.
How could that not be??
...Your friend has changed their secondary characteristics not their sex...
She is not, and never was, my friend. She was a member of a 'Quango' where I was part of the Secretariat.
Now people should see why I say this poster is gish-galloping, It is the act of making many false claims without evidence, leaving it for others to have to reluctantly work hard to debunk all the lies.
It's ongoing, despite the lies being debunked, they are repeated ad nauseum catching some unsuspecting folk along the way, which is the exact intention.
Correct. (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-275#post-61123)
Correct again.
This is incorrect.
This is also incorrect.
And [of] course this is all wrong too.
Quote from: MultitoolI'm surrounded by women and we talk.(https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/hef.jpg)
Jesus Aurora, (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-275#post-61112) if you just move to Beverley you can unplug, forget the whole nightmare and take up crochet.
Are you like me, finding clickbait headlines increasingly insane? Whilst I expect insanity from the likes of GBNews and the Express, it is creepingly expanding near everywhere...
These men haven’t even changed their names - they’re literally just men. It may be better than running in the women’s category, but why should men get a whole other category? Now we have men, women’s (also men’s), and non-binary (men.) Mediocre men can choose two extra categories to win in depending on how much effort they want to put into changing their bodies/identities. Women are over in women’s where we can be beaten by men. A woman training at an elite level to be at the top of her category gets the same prize money as a man who wouldn’t be 100th in his. And of course, biological men are always faster even though people keep trying to tell us women just need to run faster and try harder.
Quote from: BeowulfaHow can people not notice this massive giant piss-take?
One, (https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4810636-top-finishers-in-brooklyn-half-non-binary-division-all-male?page=3&reply=126345405) they don't read media that carry these stories.
Or, two, they do notice it, and reach the mountain top. [It is officially frowned upon for Mumsnetters to use the term "peaking" (https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3206285-Peak-trans)]
Or three, they do notice it, but it means the "progressive" claptrap they've embraced has something seriously wrong with it, they can't cope with this and just ignore the piss-take.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
- Quote Investigator (https://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/02/24/truth-revolutionary/)
AuroraSaab: So what if one athlete doesn't care that she was beaten by a male in the female category?
Ian H: A trans woman was the winner. Your deliberate misgendering is likely to inflame antagonism & even violence [violent eyeroll - Ed.] towards an already vulnerable group of people.
icowden: Are we really reduced to saying that women with wombs were beaten by a woman who previously owned testicles?
Ian H: I think what you're saying is that you're happy to use abusive & inflammatory language towards a small group of people who already suffer a huge amount of abuse.
matticus: It's the ABUSE that should be cracked down on; not the use of scientifically correct language.
Ian H: What about legally correct language?
Not sure why (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-280#post-61408) it's always ianh who winds me up the most
The problem is that it isn't realistic to do [exclude male bodies from changing rooms]… There are also some transwomen who you could not distinguish visually from a cis woman.
So whilst I agree with you that women's safety should be a consideration, I don't see that toilets are anything other than an irrelevant convenience…
Now (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-279#post-61368) there are women like you who wish to argue that others can not share their special word,
Quote from: multitoolYou are doing your bit to contribute to an environment that is hostile to TW, sneakily eliding them with predators...
Couldn't call your elision sneaky. (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-283#post-61466)
Those of us with (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-193#post-57396)out diseased minds saw a huge number of non-trans people showing up because they didn't want that little fascist cûnt stirring up hate in their country…
Little Kellie knows the game is up. She's niche. Real niche. Most people aren't hate-filled cùnts.
Language is important.
Quote from: monkersIf you can't define what a woman is, what chance does the IOC or Keir Starmer have?
We all know what a woman is. This ridiculous game of pretending no one knows it's biological material reality is simply a way of trying to undermine provision for women by suggesting anyone can be a woman because 'What's a woman??? Nobody knows!! It's a mystery! We can all be women!'
Asking 'What is a woman?' isn't a test of knowledge. It's a test of who is prepared to lie.
Thanks (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-285#post-61627) but I don't need you, Aurora, or any other self-appointed authority to explain [DSDs] to me.
Mate. (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-286#post-61631) Stop concern-trolling elite African athletes. Your idea of 'protecting women's sports' involved sanctioning the inspection of Ohio schoolgirls' genitalia by medics. You need to sit the fuck down. (https://archive.ph/QRVY7)
They aren't even interested in women's sport, otherwise there would be some interest in the real issues surrounding women's sport, like inequality of opportunity, pay differentials, abuse, media coverage etc, not this fake moral panic that women's sport is over because somebody did a park run [and stab. (https://archive.ph/RUTJ0) - Ed.]
As Ive said before, if it wasnt wanging on and on about trans women it would be 5g or covid lockdown/vaccines, because the truth is these weirdo obsessives have a psychological predisposition for this sort of thing. Do these people never read their own twitter feeds and have even a fleeting moment of self-awareness?
Here's Forrest. (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-286#post-61641)
I'd imagine the chromosomal abnormalities are a medical specialism of their own.
Every time you post you drive a wedge between people whose interests have hitherto been compatible or at least mutually intelligible. But of course that's the point. Those with any sense intuitively understand that solidarity with LGBT people in the face of a reactionary assault on their rights and those of women is a no brainer.
Those who have already jumped the shark become more obsessed and monomaniacal (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-288#post-61693)
One only has so much time to be setting people aright unawares: it's wise to choose a specialist subject. So here I continue to be. Not sorry.
You're giving a whole new lease of life to the term Useful Idiot.
A small digression about 'level playing fields'. We went to a talk by Michael Hutchinson the other day (intelligently entertaining, if you get a chance). He made the point that his inate genetic advantages (an extra litre or so of blood and huge lung capacity) gave him the physical ability to perform as a top-level professional cyclist. Should he have been banned from men's sport or put into a separate category?
Personally, (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-289#post-61742) I believe that the discussion over access to sport and, to some extent, public toilets, takes away from the more important point about making sure that society treats people with issues about their gender, and not just those going down the more extreme routes of drug and surgical interventions fairly and not as if they are just weird or a threat to others (https://archive.ph/ZqJzl) [this link brought to you by Nothing To See Here, Move Along].
Quote from: Ian HI do know some people like to compete in non-competitions. Some even claim to have 'won' an Audax event (they know who they are).
Isn't the usual formulation that Audaxes are for people who want to pretend they're not racing, and Sportives are for people who want to pretend that they are?
From memory there have been three women telling Aurora to sit down
In fact I briefly entertained the notion that monkers is amongst my readers (aka the silent majority), teasing me after I highlighted this phrase and used 'ad nauseam' [not sic], but I await a definitive sign.
I bet you think you are part of the 'silent majority' (https://archive.ph/2Vfkd#selection-1469.37-1469.54) don't you.
Since when (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-289#post-61723) was transactivism a men's right movement?
Because it isn't.
it's all about (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-286#post-61640) inclusivityand belittling the needs of the many (https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4812368-ed-davey-of-the-lib-dems-women-can-quite-clearly-have-a-penis?reply=126377854)
Me reading Aurora's posts
(https://i.imgur.com/Fb7pY6I.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Qg5adSY.jpg)
British Cycling has just banned us from racing. This was to be announced at 11 am today,
(https://i.imgur.com/mrvDjYM.jpg)
but I'm done with this whole conversation being on their terms, and being controlled by them.
They have no authority to control this conversation anymore. Does it surprise me that the same organisation funded directly by a state that ships vulnerable refugees to Rwanda, violently clamps down on any political dissent that they disapprove of, or starves their people? No, of course, it doesn't.
(https://i.imgur.com/4VLtW9r.jpg)
The same organisation with actively homophobic coaches, who encouraged eating disorders and did nothing about any bullying between its riders. The same organisation where elite riders influence their policy when it doesn't fit their entitled and narrow worldview, with no ability for nuance or any desire to question the view that they've been told since birth.
(https://i.imgur.com/dl9oDAc.jpg)
Journalists have been circling like vultures
(https://i.imgur.com/eN68A9n.jpg)
at a corpse for the last few days, gagging at the opportunity for a story or comment. British Cycling is a failed organisation, the racing scene is dying under your watch and all you do is take money from petrochemical companies
(https://i.imgur.com/YHYUodN.jpg)
and engage in culture wars. You don't care about making sport more diverse, you want to make yourself look better and you're even failing at that. Cycling is still one of the whitest, straightest sports out there, and you couldn't care less.
This is a violent act.
(https://i.imgur.com/KlzgEBy.jpg)
When the government is expressing admiration towards Ron Desantis' fascist state which kidnaps children, and is itching to pass legislation to ban us from public life, this is a violent act. British Cycling are supporting this, they are furthering a genocide against us. Bans from sport is how it starts, look at what is going on in America.
(https://i.imgur.com/ARcEs3B.gif)
It starts with sports bans, then youth and general healthcare and then bans from public life through bathroom bans. Just look at the situation, and who is on your side. When literal Nazis,
(https://i.imgur.com/GBCehZZ.jpg)
Keen Nazi (https://www.notanothercyclingforum.net/index.php?topic=6332.msg16900#msg16900), mixed media, a NACF original
conspiracy theorists and those who want our eradication are on your side, surely that should give you pause?
I agree that there needs to be a nuanced policy discussion and continue to conduct research, but this hasn't happened. Research isn't being viewed critically,
(https://i.imgur.com/kq9z3J7.jpg)
or any discussion about the relevance of the data to specific sports. Any discussion is inherently political and driven by bad faith actors, and the whole discussion is framed by the media who are driven through engagement by hate and funding from far-right ultra-capitalists. I've given my body up to science
(https://i.imgur.com/yZFUhNo.jpg)
for the last two years, and this data will be out soon. There is actual, relevant data coming soon and discussions need to be had.
I know a lot of people will think I'm being dramatic,
(https://i.imgur.com/mX0Bkvb.jpg)
or overplaying how scary things are at the moment. I'm having to consider an exit plan from this terrible island and figure out what point enough is enough. It terrifies me to exist at the moment. I have friends getting hate crimed all the time, and my reality is that I can't look ahead to the future or make plans because I don't know if I'll be allowed to live that long.
(https://i.imgur.com/BCh1sTq.jpg)
Do you have any idea what that does to someone psychologically? To constantly see your existence being put up for debate, and the other side openly calling for our eradication? I don't even know if I want to race my bike any more,
(https://i.imgur.com/ce5WOIG.jpg)
the danger and everything that would come with racing makes it a pretty hard thing to justify to myself. But you have no right on telling me when I am done. This is my decision and mine alone.
Yeah, I might be speaking strongly at the moment, but this is my reality right now. It is literally a fight for survival for me and my family at the moment.
(https://i.imgur.com/QEL3tiS.jpg)
I hope the media have fun cherry-picking quotes from this and making me look hysterical.
(https://i.imgur.com/kD5lnD1.jpg)
In case you haven't heard enough. (https://twitter.com/SoniaRGallego/status/1662077122809044995)
Your absolute blindness to heteronormative gender ideology, which has had much more impact on all of us than any transgender orthodoxy, is one of the reasons you are so exasperating on this topic.
Is that not the same with any issue where people are captured by some sort of fixed view of the world, which they want to imprint on everything, and everyone? The, for want of a better word, aspergic inability to see beyond their own fixed point, empathise with others, or, as you say, weigh up the realities of the world against their own vision filtered through dogmatism.
Maybe - in terms of dogmatism and intolerance of dissent or nuance, it feels like a flashback to being involved with the SWP at university - the relentless recruitment to a cause in place of normal social interaction. The reason no one wants the SWP around is not usually any specific political disagreement as such but more a resentment at being treated like fodder and as a person who can't possibly have thought already about something and ended up in a different place.
Sex is not a spectrum, but it is and always has been an unstable category, with contingent meanings, grey areas, and real-world situations that unsettle its certainties. If everything arising from it were so natural and inevitable, why would it need have needed the violent enforcement of the patriarchy over so many centuries, and why does it require so much cultural work (like the crusade you're on now) to uphold it?
if you look at their previous posts they're largely ignored
There’s barely a topic on here that isn’t being ruined by the trading of slurs, which is so tiresome that it’s ruining the forum...
I’ll start: Hey, @Pale Rider, I was going to give you a nasty look, but I see you already have one.
Pillock.
Quote from: albionYou simply click ignore to get rid of the tedious posters.
Certainly an option, but if I were minded to click ignore I would be more minded to not bother logging in at all.
Quote from: Pale RiderFarage is a bit of a nutter, so I'm not interested in his case.
You should be, because banks have decided collectively to act as social behaviour judge and jury. Hiding behind tipping off legislation conducting a purge those who have a different opinion.
This is a very dangerous situation, your whole life could destroyed if you can't operate without a bank account.
Are the people complaining that banks are choosing who they want as customers the same ones that think that cake shops should be allowed to discriminate against LGBT clients? I think some of them may be.
Quote from: multitoolAlways unverifiable claims from these people.
Well for starters, reverend was de-banked recently for questioning pride merchandising in his branch. Alexandra Tolstoy was de-banked very recently, numerous politicians have spoken having their accounts closed without reason.
Now with the knowledge of subject access is out there. I expect many many more will become public news. Obviously many will want to keep quite publicly and just go through the channels of appeal.
You're blinded by the fact its Nigel Farage who has stirred this up. Who knows actually how many people companies have been de-banked or had accounts closed for no apparent reason.
Whether its a storm in teacup or a endemic culture will become clearer in due course.
It will be an great result if banks cannot arbitrarily close accounts without due and open process.
Obviously Nigel will get all the commendations for championing the cause.
You can thank him later, with a piece of humble pie
I suspect it'll prove to be a storm in a very small teacup.
Can't we all just enjoy the comedy?
If you were on your way to work in Barclays in The Strand you'd be tempted to spit on Coutts' window as you walked past.
Quote from: multitoolFarage, and anyone who supports or admires him, is a cùnt
I see you have issues (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/time-for-a-pep-talk.514/page-7#post-68262)
Cunts the lot of you.
one of those dissolved spoilers, far too fancy for NACFI feel compelled to add, lest anyone be genuinely hurt by this, that I don't actually mean it - it is, in fact, traditional greeting that I use with a small group of very dear friends.[close]
Free speech is non negotiable, sacred
Quote from: mudsticksHis financial status notwithstanding -
As a business if they don't want his custom, if they don't want to be associated with his nasty views, and dodgy dealing, grifting ways
First banks should not be making political decisions on customers accounts. They are banks for money
I would agree with you if and it's a big if. Cash was still a viable way to operate in life. But banks have almost eliminated cash and only want online, cashless system.
To debank is to literally cancel someone out of society
theclaud: Pretty much anything is nicer than Surrey. Contrary to popular belief, there's not even a fringe on top.
Pale Rider: No doubt it will annoy Claud, but I'm going to explain the cultural reference because I don't think everyone will get it. One of the Rodgers and Hammerstein classic songs from the film Oklahoma! was The Surrey with the Fringe on the Top. The song grew legs and became a jazz standard.
Pale Rider: I'm going to explain the cultural reference…
newfhouse: No shït.
Pale Rider: because I don't think everyone will get it.
newfhouse: We’re not all Sun readers. (https://www.reddit.com/r/britishproblems/comments/d5ywi9/our_tabloid_media_are_still_utter_cunts/) [Linked that for you - Ed.]
Pale Rider: Blimey, I was only trying to annoy Claud. Apologies if you knew all about it, but you are so dense in other respects I couldn't be sure you'd be up to speed on Rodgers and Hammerstein musicals.
newfhouse: Don’t laugh at my jokes too much
People will say we’re in love.
I'm having great fun with this forum.
Trigger happy lefty wokies.
Simply state a fact, watch the insults fly
Turning up to an obscure cycling forum to "trigger lefty wokies" seems a bit of tragic way to 'have fun'.
Especially considering nobody is triggered by you, and the only people laughing is everybody...
...at you.
There is fun to be had by reading the outraged responses of the woke lefties one here, even if those responses are entirely predictable.
Nobody is outraged.
It is all so pathetically predictable.
Even if I get bored (again) and stop posting, someone else will be along.
The meaning of PARODY is a literary or musical work in which the style of an author or work is closely imitated for comic effect or in ridicule
Quote from: icowdenI don't think you understand what Net Zero is. It's when you don't generate more CO2 than is being absorbed by nature and/or CO2 reclaiming methods.
TMN to Mudsticks.
Shudder.
Yawn.
Smile.
I think your avatar just cracked.
mudsticks: View attachment (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/attachments/screenshot_20230730-212644-png.4337/)
Pale Rider: Ooo. a classic BMC A series engine before they turned it sideways to put in the original Mini. By trying to have pop at me, you've unwittingly come up with some fascinating motoring history.
mudsticks (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/just-stop-p-ssing-everyone-off.520/page-10#post-70142): Oh do stop trying to make it all about you - again. It isn't personal.
AuroraSaab: A few years ago you could be sure that anybody in the women's toilets was female, regardless of how they looked. As a result of trans identifying men pushing to use women's single sex spaces and services, that is no longer the case… [In 2015] Stonewall started pushing the transactivist agenda and using their training schemes and Index grift to mislead employers into thinking that men could use women's facilities and services, and thus giving the green light to men to cross previously accepted boundaries.
Bromptonaut: my experience of working with a transwomen predates by the best part of a decade the alleged Stonewall campaign you mention.
Bromptonaut: Do you think that if you keep children ignorant of this stuff they're less likely to experiment?
CXRAndy: A time and place. So do you explicitly describe what is like to have a man come in your mouth?
Bromptonaut: At an appropriate age there is IMO absolutely no reason why that, including addressing the spit/swallow question, should be off limits.
Quote from: CXRAndyBut it's apparent that vast majority of women do not want men of any type in their spaces.
Except that isn't true.
What I would really like is for each post to be anonymous, ie, the bit on the left which shows our user names to be blank.
That way, everyone could only respond to the words.
It would finally get rid of the 'playing the man' on NACA which has been its most pressing problem for years.
It got worse, then it got even worser. (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-499#post-70798)
Quote from: multitoolWhat a stupid, ignorant post.
As if racism only becomes racism after it hits a certain threshold.
Your second sentence makes the point perfectly.
Why detract from it with your first sentence? It can serve only to become the focus of his response and your point will be lost in the inevitable trading of provocations.
Question is, which one has the most predicably stupid reader comments?
Dears
[Ah, the Why Can't We All Just Get Along thread, edition #2,756 - theclaud]
It's a sign of the times that NACA is now confined to the high security wing
NACA and NACF are twinned: you people in your cell, me in mine. (https://www.notanothercyclingforum.net/index.php?topic=3893.msg16366#msg16366) Perhaps we can tap out messages?
Weirdo stalker gets even weirder and stalkerish.
Funny how everyone wants to be noticed, but notice them too much and they get all weird about it.
I try to be pleasant to everyone. No spine, me.
Ms Cherry is notorious (https://archive.li/LHrWC) for speaking her mind and using actual facts in a belligerent, aggressive and aggressively belligerent way.
We Scots are fond of using Robert Burns’s old locution “facts are chiels that winna ding and downa be disputed”. But surely as a nation we have progressed well beyond the time when this tired old poet of ill repute was advancing his patriarchal propaganda. Sometimes facts are chiels that do ding.
I've wasted a good deal of my life being tolerant when I really ought to have been more militant.
the entire gender critical movement is a cult
#NotACult
you have been indoctrinated into a cult.
Getting fucked makes you a woman because fucked is what a woman is.
I work in healthcare. If Graham Linehan needed care and I was part of the team providing it, I would absolutely do my job to the best of my ability, same as I would for anyone else.
Edit: if he came in and started spouting transphobic gibberish that might be another matter since my workplace is a safe and inclusive space for LGBTQIA+ people but that would be on him, not on us.
I have been thrown out of venues in the past for being a c*nt. It wasn't discrimination, I was just being a c*nt.
Not a cult (https://genspect.org/the-new-thoughtcrime-an-interview/) at all then. [Helpful link added - Ed.]
Quote from: Pale Rider the lesserJimjim''s going to start swearing again in a minute, I can feel it coming. (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-520#post-72374)Quote from: winjimF*ck off. Again.
I'll set 'em up, and you knock 'em down. (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-521#post-72408)
Don't flatter yourself, I didn't even read your post before I wrote my reply.
The venue were happy to host controversial material which in the current climate they must have known was probably going to include some tedious (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-522#post-72457) opinions regarding gender. But hosting Graham Linehan was just a step too far for them.
You approvingly platformed (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-519#post-72334) the Twitter musings of a convicted child sex offender (https://reduxx.info/uk-prominent-trans-activist-known-for-having-opponents-arrested-has-history-of-indecent-assault-on-14-year-old-boy/) yesterday so I'm not sure you're best placed to decide what a step too far is.
I refer you to my previous answer. (https://archive.ph/Smddl#selection-18407.28-18407.65) [Always with the helpful links, (https://archive.li/brSJT#selection-1913.4-1917.1) me. - Ed.]
Glinner, or Unleashed
or whoever, doesn't have a scintilla of a case against the venue under equality law, and threats to sue on that basis are vexatious bullying, cock-waving, and scandal-mongering.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Callback_(comedy) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Callback_%28comedy%29)
His trousers fell to his knees and he pulled his clanger clear of his oversized shorts before wrenching her skirt up and ripping the front of her knickers away.
"You can ring my bell any time," she purred.
there's only one thing worse than being talked about right..??
He's talking about removing the Block feature. That's a terrible idea, for obvious reasons.
I really don't care to much about Twitter, but what's happening with it now is what happens if you let an man-child basically buy it
It's just selection bias, what about all the babies that weren't killed and all the nurses that didn't murder.
The wokerati should raise their cancelling game, 'cos everywhere I look suet-pudding faced Linehan is mithering. Audibly!
Stupid binaries are the preserve of the dim (https://archive.ph/Smddl#selection-18407.28-18407.65)
Quote from: AuroraSaabYou'd rather pretend people aren't losing their jobs or opportunities than engage with the idea that transactivism is a repressive ideology.
Yes, frankly. Now will you leave us to do that in peace?
Quote from: fozy tornipI'm throwing a birthday party for my bairn shortly. Must I invite Jim Davidson, or might I choose an alternative children's entertainer?
Was Cheryl Hole not available? I thought your kids loved the learn drag class last year? It's just like panto, you know. Too busy on Bake Off now I expect. If it has to be a racist comedian CycleChat favourite Janey Godley is probably still available. Or if you're prepared to settle for jokes about rape there's always Frankie Boyle. Maybe that nonce children's cartoonist your compatriot found could do a sketch-your-toddlers party for you. None of them have been cancelled so you should be fine.
Quote from: big dick in a small pond[Linehan is] mentally ill
I don't disagree with you that he may be mentally ill.
He elides trans people with paedophiles, (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63137873) much as bigots used to do the same with gay people.
AuroraSaab: You've said Linehan has called trans people paedophiles - or you've insinuated as much. I don't think asking for actual quotes from him is too much.
winjim: @Glinner groomer (https://twitter.com/search?q=from:@Glinner groomer&t=SI6-U7P3zj6fnbf26unQjA&s=09)
AuroraSaab: That link just shows this for me: No results for "from:@Glinner groomer"
Anyway, decent piece (https://www.thenational.scot/politics/23734449.look-media-handled-strange-case-graham-linehan/) in The National about the Glinner Fringe debacle.
For a "cancelled" bloke, he gets about a bit…
I keep having to log in (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/i-keep-having-to-log-in.475/)
We have met the enemy and he is us.
You and I have been convicted of as many murders as Fred West has been.
It's a 3 page row over the fact that someone said 'guilty of' or 'convicted of' (can't even recall which now) instead of 'responsible for' and the classic naca-ism of assuming the worst intention of every poster.
Quote from: Andy to AndySeriously? You actually think that transgender "ideology" is as young as the United States?
What is it with people round here unable to use search engines.??
from personal experience I don't think that the transwomen I know are 'repressed gays'. They wouldn't have had any bother coming out as gay in the circles they move in, nor been given a hard time for old fashioned cross dressing.
There's definitely, genuinely, something else going on for them.
I can't quite pretend that I fully grasp it …
the transwomen I know do genuinely feel something other than just wanting to be 'non trad' male - or gay. They could do that anyhow, no bother, certainly a lot less 'bother' than being trans.
So I choose to believe them, and respect how they wish to identify and live,
as I don't think they'd put themselves through all that hassle for no deep seated reason
What a twunt.
Without consulting google, I think it must relate to the female vagina, having its origins in either c*nt or tw*t. Or it may be a deliberate portmanteau of the two.
There might even be more than one Aurora and Pale Rider.
What a muddle we'd all be in.
Yours,
The one and only Pale Rider.
Just popping this here (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-535#post-73393) to watch later.
Quote from: AuroraSaabI'm enjoying the gymnastics that have to be done to try to maintain a consistent position on self ID when faced with someone like Kayla. (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-537#post-73558)
You're mostly imagining these 'gymnastics',
as it's only in your head that you are facing a wall of identikit opponents all hell-bent on transing kids and destroying women's sport. I reckon most people are simply wondering whether, finding yourself sharing Daily Mail freakshow clickbait about Canadian trans women with insane pneumatic fake tits on a niche offshoot of a cycling forum, you ever pause to ask yourself 'How did I get here?'.
SAIEW
[Bromptonaut being particularly Bromptonaut] (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-537#post-73583)
teachers of any gender do not share sleeping facilities or toilets with children
I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it.
'How did I get here?'
Quote from: CXRAndywomen only spaces... is common sense
"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen"
There are people who just want to quietly get on (https://terfisaslur.com/) with their lives, who are no threat to anyone, who live in increased fear and real danger as a result of this weaponised panic. (https://4thwavenow.com/2015/09/08/from-the-department-of-horrible-and-misleading-propaganda/) It would help everybody? to dial it back a few notches. I confess I don’t know how to achieve that but I do believe a strident all-or-nothing approach won’t work.
Awww, so sad the full clip is gone where we see his response to Lowri's very sensible correction: open mouth, wide eyes, pause where his brain is clearly trying to work out how it is that a WOMAN spoke, with views clearly showing up his own. He thinks nah, didn't happen...did it? Oh God it did (then presenter interjects with a "look, a squirrel" to save his blushes). Golden.
This is not my beautiful wife. (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-540#post-73635)
[Interview] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG9_lcln7FU)
There are a lot of people who can't move on from this. And that's the people who have transitioned their own children. So those people are going to be like the Japanese soldiers who were on Pacific islands and didn't know the war was over. They've got to fight forever. This is another reason why this is the worst, worst, worst social contagion that we'll ever have experienced.
A lot of people have done what is the worst thing you could do, which is to harm their children irrevocably, because of it. Those people will have to believe that they did the right thing for the rest of their lives, for their own sanity, and for their own self-respect. So they'll still be fighting, and each one of those people destroys entire organizations and entire friendship groups.
Like, I've lost count of the number of times that somebody has said to me of a specific organization that has been turned upside down on this, "Oh, the deputy director has a trans child." Or, oh, the journalist on that paper who does special investigations has a trans child. Or whatever. The entire organization gets paralyzed by that one person. And it may not even be widely known at that organization that they have a trans child. But it will come out, people will have sort of said quietly, and now you can' talk truth in front of that person, and you know you can't, because what you're saying is: "You as a parent have done a truly, like, a human rights abuse level of awful thing to your own child that can not be fixed."
There are specific individuals who are actively against women's rights here and it is not known why they are, but I happen to know through the back channels, that it is because they've transed their child.
So those people will do anything for the entire rest of their lives to destroy me and people like me because people like me are standing in reproach to them. I don't want to be, I'm not talking directly to them, and I don't spend my time bitching to them.
But the fact is that just simply by saying we will never accept natal males in women's spaces, well it is their son that we're talking about. And they've told their son that he can get himself sterilized and destroy his own basic sexual function and women will accept him as a woman. And if we don't, there's no way back for them and that child.
They've sold their child a bill of goods that they can't deliver on.
And I'm the one that has to be bullied to try to force me to deliver on it.
So those people are going to be the people who will keep this bloody movement going, I'm sorry to say, because they've everything to lose, and it is a fight to the death as far as they are concerned.
Quote from: newfhouseDay of reckoning - just listen to yourself FFS. (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-544#post-73750)
If you had watched the YouTube piece, you'd have known the context.
you may find yourself behind the wheel of a large automobile
I think it's depressing (https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4881734-caroline-nokes-says-its-depressing-to-regard-men-as-dangerous?page=2&reply=128737938) to regard cars as 'dangerous'. To say that they can and do harm people is just pure bigotry. Everyone using a car is only doing so for perfectly normal reasons like getting about.
To put any kind of 'safeguarding' in them just because they are physically automobiles is ridiculous. We should identify the ones that hurt people and put seatbelts in those ones only. Or we could risk-assess each street and put a speed limit only on the ones where it's been proven that people have been actually "hurt" - which we all know doesn't happen.
I would work (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/6996800/108-year-old-woman-emerges-as-Britains-oldest-first-World-War-veteran.html) every hour God sent but I had dozens of friends on the base and we had a great deal of fun in our spare time.
Haha is this thread still going!? Wow.
Move all now...nothing to see here. (https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/erm-the-things-only-women-do.46965/page-25#post-920006)
Quote from: Rigid RaiderNag, gossip, criticise, whinge.
It's a parallel universe. People are offended by a bit of harmless ribaldry from Fnaar, whilst blatant misogyny goes unremarked.
According to Alice Cooper, (and to answer thread title) only women bleed. And she should know, having a girl's name and all!
Amazing! (https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4879291-alice-cooper?page=2&reply=128665675) A man (who knows he’s a man) with a traditionally female name, with long hair, who often wears makeup doesn’t think that a name, hair or makeup makes someone a woman. (https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4884005-for-those-who-believe-in-gender-identity-over-sex-why-do-you-still-need-to-believe-in-men-and-women-at-all)
I have a colleague who is transgender (https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/erm-the-things-only-women-do.46965/page-3#post-919648) - from man to woman. I find her insights fascinating. She said that the biggest difference she has noticed was that, as a woman, she appears to be given fewer 'rights to speak' than when she was a man - she is talked over in meetings more often, she said she feels less listened to, that her opinions are not heard out and are not taken as seriously - dismissed out of hand. I also find this to be the case in professional contexts.
My question is thus whether the stereotypical attribution of women as nagging, whinging etc is more about their subordination: in other words about denying them empowerment, participation, and influence which is based on the visible aspects of their gender, rather than them actually nagging, whinging etc.
My limited understanding (https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/erm-the-things-only-women-do.46965/page-23#post-919972) of the [Equal Opportunity] issues are that when you are in the more dominant group; white male, it can be difficult to place yourself in the mind of the other groups. What a white male will perceive as fair is often not. It is therefore difficult to 'walk a mile in other man's shoes' or as Burns wrote 'To see yourself as other see you'.
I learned summat useful yrs ago... (https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/erm-the-things-only-women-do.46965/page-12#post-919788) only women can gestate, lactate and menstruate. Only men can impregnate. In all other attributes (physical and mental) there is a crossover (i.e. most men are physically stronger than most women, but some women are stronger than some men; most men are hairier than most women, but some women are hairier than some men... etc).
This theory falls down only when you consider scatter cushions.
my time (https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/erm-the-things-only-women-do.46965/page-16#post-919847) is taken up with all the brow wiping from the victorianesque repression on these pages oh and I spend my days by the fridge getting Noodley his continuos stream of refreshments.
Quote from: ttcycle...tell me what to think please...!
Bunny rabbits (https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/erm-the-things-only-women-do.46965/page-15#post-919828) and kittens, a flowers. Think of lovely things.
And get me a can when your at the fridge, there's a love (https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/rofl.gif)
(https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/biggrin.gif)(https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/rofl.gif)(https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/smile.gif)(https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/rofl.gif)(https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/biggrin.gif)(https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/rofl.gif)(https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/rofl.gif)(https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/rofl.gif) Oh dear!
Well (https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/erm-the-things-only-women-do.46965/page-5#post-919678) my thoughts when opening the thread were:
1) It would add balance to the thread about what only men do
2) It would be a bit of harmless fun on a dull grey day
3) The people on here are generally sensible enough to know that it is meant tongue in cheek
So please dont take it seriously & accept my apology
I only note for future reference that the funny and the serious are not opposites. Anything but.
"That ain't no lady (https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/erm-the-things-only-women-do.46965/page-23#post-919962) - that's theclaud."from the start, and hang on to that through the worse – follow this shocking link (https://archive.ph/dXoCQ#selection-3653.567-3653.606). How she gets by without my approval remains a mystery. (It's safe to say nobody's angling for Pale Rider the lesser (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/a-real-racist.527/page-5#post-70864)'s approval either.)
I commend (https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/erm-the-things-only-women-do.46965/page-19#post-919897) to you the work of Deborah Cameron.
Sorry, I don't use the subjunctive (https://twitter.com/wordspinster/status/1652443222747103233)
Nice avatar, by the way. Boletus edulis? (https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/erm-the-things-only-women-do.46965/page-22#post-919958)
there is nothing wrong with the word 'queer' (https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/erm-the-things-only-women-do.46965/page-7#post-919707) in fact it's been adopted by the gay community - have you not heard of queer culture?
This thread (https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/erm-the-things-only-women-do.46965/page-19#post-919898) has gone rapidly downhill now that nobody is squabbling. I love watching others having a domestic.
I feel asleep (https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/erm-the-things-only-women-do.46965/page-23#post-919969) about page 24 and woke up with QWERTY-8%/mnbgh etched on my forehead.
We need to remember (https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/erm-the-things-only-women-do.46965/page-16#post-919854) that occasionally it is perfectly acceptable to take offence. We shouldn't necessarily seek to understand why someone appears to go along with a subject one minute then rail against it the next. What we MUST do however, is accept that offence has been caused, offer a sincere apology (https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/erm-the-things-only-women-do.46965/page-23#post-919968) [To the bat-bitten loose-bowelled - Ed.] and move on. Knowing that what you have said or posted has upset someone should surely be the moment to seek to undo some of the harm?
It's a real shame (https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/erm-the-things-only-women-do.46965/page-5#post-919681) as the silly minority ruin it for everyone. That's always the way I find. Sigh. (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-550#post-74008)
Opens mouth. (https://tinyurl.com/5dcxhpcb)
Ye have enemies? (https://quoteinvestigator.com/2022/03/24/enemies/) Good, good — that means ye’ve stood up for something, sometime in thy life.
Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have.
One of the most time-consuming things is to have an enemy.
Quote from: AndyRMNuke it from orbit.
Like this.?? (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/naca-political-jokes-page.38/page-38#post-73991)
(https://i.imgur.com/mD55bhv.jpg)
I'm going along with the sensible commentary of "Cats are better than Dogs"
Quote from: Ian H
Great so now we have some context.
This was the Speaking for Women Rally in Miami. Internet references seem to be crediting KJK with organising it but I can't find anything to substantiate that. What is interesting is that she says
"Now it's your turn... yeah... thank you for your patience" as she hands him the PA mic and the web feed mic.
To me that implies that she has just spoken and is just handing over the equipment to the next person to speak - possibly even sanctioning him speaking and not interrupting her speech. The clip is quite selective and doesn't show us what went on before.
It doesn't seem to me like she is endorsing him or the Proud Boys in any way.
Nazi. Nazi nazi nazi nazi. Hitler. Nazi Hitler. Nazi nazi genocide nazi Hitler. [Unintelligible] Nazi nazi nazi nazi. [Repeats til the end of the clip]
Yeah I just want to say, welcome to Miami first of all. .. And welcome to the deep, deep… we're in the middle of the twilight zone, so… We're all here together to fight the same battle. I'm a local GOP committee man for this area. And it is about coming together. This is something that shouldn't be tolerated at any point in society, at any point in human history. This is an act [of] destroying innocent lives, destroying families. And they're just getting started. If they have it their way, it leads into pedophilia. It leads into kids resenting these decisions for the rest of their lives. Destroying innocent lives. It's something that's satanic, and, and, both sides need to come together to stop this. So I want to thank everyone for coming out here today. And this is what it takes. Show up at your school board. They're getting gender ideology, gender therapists to convince children. These kids are coerced into the ideas that it's going to make them feel a certain way. And they're encouraged to, to go under the knife. To… thinking that they're going to solve some internal issue that they don't know how to deal with. They're being misled, misquided. And [unintelligible] people coming out into the streets, people going to the school board, people getting involved with their parties locally, and stopping this. If it doesn't stop now, it's going to destroy tens of thousands of lives. And, and these people are still going to go home at night, sleep like a baby, and not worry about these atrocities that they have committed. So thank you everyone again, and God bless.
Quote from: CXRAndyShe must be doing something right, by the way trans are triggered
Hitler must have done something right judging by the way the rest of the world was triggered.
If our place (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-564#post-74975) were suitable for major music gigs (it isn't) then yes of course I'd host a gig. If [Róisín Murphy] wanted to hold a rally with KJK or similar as a speaker, then no I would not agree to it.
My point is that the simplest explanation is that Keen and her Proud Boy guests are part of the same larger movement or tendency. Every other explanation seems, to put it kindly, a bit of a stretch.
Bit of an Occam's Razor thing, surely?
Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth
Thread successfully diverted back to Nazis. Well done
Mumsnet are actually discussing something on their 'feminism' board other than trans people!*(https://i.imgur.com/Z5wijVL.jpg)
It's the revelation that female surgeons are being groped by senior male surgeons while they're actually working in theatre.
In other news, Helen 'genocide' Joyce and Maya 'What period poverty?' Forstater were two of the huge crowd** that attended the People's History Museum in Manchester, where they held a 'debate'***. The museum had not wanted to host them****, but Hatestater apparently waved a threat of legal action of they didn't. As a result, the Museum was forced to close its doors to the public for the day, including to disabled people coming to see a relevant exhibition, as many workers refused to turn up.
The event was all about 'free speech', but Hatestater has complained that someone had exercised their own free speech and hung up an 'offensive' Progress Pride flag in the window. After the event, they were filmed walking down the street in front of peaceful pro-trans demonstrators, grinning and waving in obvious fear of their lives. Joyce later reported that as she had arrived in Manchester, she became terrified, because there were Pride flags everywhere and the "Orwellian" (her word) message "Everyone is welcome". Someone commented that if the reverse were true, if it were a trans rights meeting, the counter demonstrators would have largely been people like Proud Boys, Patriotic Alternative, etc.
Avon Braun recently claimed that she had deep pockets for legal action (i.e. a rich funder) and she complained about press comments that the outright self-described Nazis who turned up in Melbourne***** to support her were, er, Nazis who had turned up to support her. As they themselves said. She also claimed that despite literally wishing that all transwomen died it was defamatory to call her anti-trans. Mosley Parker has now received the ruling from the NZ press authorities that she is indeed an anti-trans campaigner for whom Nazis turned up to support.
Final snippet: there is a new transphobic Twitter account, "Real LGB Woman". They describe themself as "Anti nonce, pro england (sic), working class tory lass. Genuine real female. Exposer of men"
It's Graham Linehan. Again. See the comment above re 40,000 etc.
*I lied. They've decided it's the fault of trans women after all.
**28. All white, elderly women. Or 40,000 Twitter accounts, of course
*** Debate defined as everyone nodding in agreement
**** When I look for somewhere to host a meeting, I too always choose somewhere that hates me and mine. Doesn't everybody?
***** Nazis ALWAYS turn up to support her.
Debate defined as everyone nodding in agreement
Prefabs worked so well partly thanks to that nice Mr Hitler who created lots of suitable building plots.
It appears that Barbie Hitler won’t be going to NZ this week. Apparently it’s nothing to do with the fact she’s likely to be banned from entry but that her family are “worried about her safety”… yeah, right.
Nazi x3
Avon Braun x2
Re that book, 'Trans'. No, I haven't read more than excerpts, just as I haven't read more than excerpts of Mein Kampf, nor that book Greer wrote where she praises paedophilia.
a lot of people here value you
Have a virtual hug from me
FuckTerfs
Avon Braun x2
Literal Nazis x1
Plain old Nazis x1
Mein Kampf x1
Another trope from the TERFs: trans people weren't persecuted by the Nazis. Lots of Nazis were crossdressers. Typical troons, claiming victim status. Troons are all Nazis!
Reality: the first bookburning session by the Nazis was on the sex research institute of Hirschfeld.
Here's a [low-grade - Ed.] Smithsonian article
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/new-research-reveals-how-the- (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/new-research-reveals-how-the-targeted-transgender-people-180982931/)nazis-targeted-transgender-people-180982931/ (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/new-research-reveals-how-the-targeted-transgender-people-180982931/)
Mein Kampf x1
Daily Heil x1
Get a room, you two, FFS. (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-572#post-76358)
This forum was created (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/schooliform.544/page-28#post-76706) so that users would be allowed to insult other users with impunity. It's helpful to realise this as early as possible in one's NACA "journey".Has the ring of truth.
I'm off to Wales now (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/climate-crisis-are-we-doing-enough.17/page-76#post-75961) to do some 'Real World' 'On the Ground' relentlessness >>>>>Mudsticks habitually keeps us apprised of her movements. Fortunately it's never GPS accurate.
I'm not as down on the lesser as others, but joy vampire (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/is-this-and-the-old-naca.283/page-10#post-29740) sounds about right.Quote from: qigong chimpI'm not a kid (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/schooliform.544/page-20#post-75892)Your posts indicate otherwise.
Rishi Sunak is a Tosser…. (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/rishi-sunak-is-a-tosser.548/)Fab. We've talked about those dot dot dots. (https://www.notanothercyclingforum.net/index.php?topic=3893.msg16176#msg16176)
He's probably got an idea of what evidence means, "actual" being a clue, but one can't really fault the thrust. Hopefully the concept of innocent until proven guilty is still a going concern in a court ofQuote from: icowdenSo it's fine (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/russel-brand-seems-to-have-an-situation.547/page-7#post-75736) to vilify [Russell Brand] in the press, destroy his livelihood and make him a pariah on the basis of no actual evidenceanimated gif alert(https://i.imgur.com/Da6vFCY.gif)[close]
There is evidence (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/russel-brand-seems-to-have-an-situation.547/page-9#post-75798) and it has been presented to the public.Welcome to the de-enlightenment.
Nuance fail. (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-570#post-75501) Of course, icowden didn't say it was purely used by women. He was in fact painstakingly accurate. The multitrolls of the world delight in such bullshit. Abandon hope all ye opponents who attempt to engage in good faith. Monkers (https://www.notanothercyclingforum.net/index.php?topic=3893.msg17088#msg17088) and Steph are the same. In a just universe they would get the Zod treatment.Quote from: icowdenA forum built for and around women seems to have a different point of view. Who'da thunk?You think mumsnet is purely used by women? (https://prettygoodbritain.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/laughing.gif)
This you, Andy? (https://archive.ph/BuoGn#selection-1845.0-1845.14)A deep dive in 9 minutes flat for that gotcha is impressive. Shame newfhouse is playing for the wrong team...
you will never find a more wretched hive (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-570#post-75579) of scum and villainyHey, I kept most of his quote.
That's quite the snark for a filthy capitalist. (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/the-true-cost-of-second-homes-and-air-bnb.92/#post-5980)Quote from: icowdenIf I was wealthy (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/schooliform.544/page-17#post-75754) I'd have a new bathroom and a new front door at least to show for it.Oh, the horror. How do you survive?
We're just here (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-570#post-75605) peddling our opinions.Once upon a time gentle humour would've papered over the cracks. When you've had an eyeful of the sort of nonsense Ian is cabable of peddling, it stops being charming.
I know you're trolling (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/russel-brand-seems-to-have-an-situation.547/page-10#post-75828)
The actors in the discussion (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/gender-again-sorry.273/page-421#post-66345) are not the best ones to declare who is trolling, just as footballers are not the best ones to referee their own game.I just so happen to be perfectly positioned to be infallible, which comfortably exceeds the job requirement.
Her school (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/schooliform.544/page-17#post-75741) was founded by a bunch of utter cùntsMust I now start a cunt count?
It's extremely objectionable (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/russel-brand-seems-to-have-an-situation.547/page-7#post-75744) to claim that women's verbal evidence… is not evidence,Welcome news to gender critical women.
and it's not the first time you've done it. I guess it must be related to your view that we are 'there to be impregnated'.I'm getting a strong urge (https://www.notanothercyclingforum.net/index.php?topic=3893.msg17285;topicseen#msg17285) to chew the scenery.