Author Topic: TWAM

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Re: TWAM
« Reply #30 on: July 15, 2021 »
I wasn't of an age to appreciate all the 70s had to offer (though apparently had a political conscience, as I remember dissing Nixon on the playground). In some ways it seems much better than where we are now. Even Nixon, bad as he was, would be an improvement on the leadership in the current GOP.

As a minor example of bridling over being put in boxes, my first job required a necktie for us XYs.


This incensed me, as women were allowed to breathe free and subject to no discernable code. I was jealous!

More seriously (though both the physical uncomfortableness and the symbolism of wearing a noose are worth diatribes), as a box ticking exercise it's good the NHS knows I'm male. Other than that it seldom comes up except at places like mumsnet, where stereotypes are rife, and on the road, where it's hard not to notice that male cyclists heavily outnumber female. On my old forum I made an effort to keep the atmosphere from getting too blokey.

Today's must-read:
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Just as the mobile phone demanded a personal account of a human on a daily basis with their social media so Genderism demanded an audit of the human soul of the new young. They were to account for their souls to a binary of action man and barbie.

This public form of life by committee meant all those secret, forgotten, private things. Those nights in a forest, that time she got drunk and wore her hair short or he played with makeup. All those crazy wild, tropical butterflies of youth. That vast swarm of colours.....

Each had to be pinned dead to a board and labelled like an exhibit in the natural history museum. This life permanently observed had no space for private, human, wild, nights in the dark. It had no place to accept that something can happen even if it is not observed.

Genderism pinned the butterflies to boards and made them dead and still. The curators told of their wild colours and tropical identities but they had the pallor and stillness of the soul of a thing living half it's life. They became collectors of who they were.

451

Irreversible Damage
« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2021 »
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Regnery was blindsided by the ABA's statement, according to president and publisher Thomas Spence, who denounced the organization's characterization of the incident as "an act of violence." In an e-mail to PW, Spence wrote: "The only explanation I can think of for the ABA's statement that credits them with a rational (though dishonorable) motive is that they're trying to drum up publicity for their annual Banned Books Week promotion, coming in September (this year's slogan: 'Censorship Divides Us'). Perhaps finding books that have been 'banned,' in any meaningful sense, is so difficult that they have been forced to do the dirty work themselves."

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For starters, please take the negative reviews with a grain of salt. I highly doubt they read the book and just looked at the cover. Admittedly, the cover makes it sound antagonistic to the trans community - it's not. This book isn't critiquing geninue gender dysphoria, but rather rapid onset gender dysphoria that is plaguing the hearts and minds of many young LGBTQ+ people. As a lesbian, this book resonates with me a lot. I've been told I should transition because I look more "masculine" and I should "conform to gender roles." What an insane concept to me. What's scary and why I appreciate books like this, is because if I was just a decade or so younger, I probably would've thought I should be a man, that I'm not normal for liking girls as a woman. I probably would've seriously considered transitioning, and the serious psychological plight it would've had once I tried to detransition. (Many aspects of HRT are permanent). Anyway, if you're a parent, gender confused, or LGBTQ+, or just generally curious, please read this book.

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I wasn't sure what to expect with this book. The subtitle ("The Transgender Craze Seducing Out Daughters") has a definite whiff of moral panic about it, and I was a bit worried it might be a bit cringey, but I heard an interview with the writer and she didn't come across that way, so I'm going to guess it was added by the publishers to try and whip up sales or something. It does at least show pretty clearly who the book is aimed at: parents of teenage girls. Not the girls themselves (but please can someone else write that book, because we need it).

There's a little-discussed phenomenon that's been going around in the last few years known as Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria, which has mainly been affecting girls and young women. Essentially, it does just what the name implies: children who have never shown any sign of gender confusion become suddenly and overwhelmingly convinced that they were born in the wrong body. The teenage years have always been pretty hard on girls and they are more susceptible than boys to mental health issues such as depression, anxiety, cutting and eating disorders. ROGD is just the latest manifestation of this.

The author is really at her best when describing the mental state of girls experiencing the pain of growing up in modern society, with its restrictions, its loneliness, its unrealistic expectations and its ubiquitous porn. She has real compassion, and sheds a lot of light for parents (especially male parents like me) on what their daughters might be going through. She does this without being judgemental and certainly without dismissing actual trans people: she has interviewed many for the book, and refers to them respectfully throughout. To that extent, it isn't really about being trans at all: she wants to distinguish between the different strands of the trans community and point out that in most cases, these girls aren't really a part of it at all.

Having laid the groundwork to establish this, she describes the social contagion aspect of ROGD and related trends, and the online network of people who "support" girls by basically encouraging them to embrace the illness, and offering a ton of peer-pressure to stop them turning back. There are loads of first-hand testimonies to support this. She describes the well-meaning but wrong-headed professionals who are trained to only ever affirm the girls' self-diagnosis, never to suggest exploring other related mental health concerns.

Parents, who know the children best and love them above all else, are often treated by professionals as if they are somehow holding their children back. In some cases they are even given the stark choice "would you rather have a living son or a dead daughter", which is a horrible way of posing the dilemma, since it is designed to hijack the parents' natural protective instincts and guilt them into colluding with their daughters taking Lupron then, later, losing their fertility, changing their voice and appearance permanently and even undergoing unnecessary surgery.

In America, where big pharma has already made a fortune from over-diagnosing childhood ADHD, depression and anxiety, the possibility of a whole new market of lifelong patients to buy hormone blockers, testosterone and pain meds is a godsend. It's really agonising for me, as a parent, to think of children herded down this road to victimhood by adults who really ought to bloody know better. And my heart goes out to the parents in the book, even though they aren't always sympathetic. Some are very supportive, trying to do the right thing, but unsure what that is. Others are bitter and angry at seeing their children lured away by an online cult. And it's the parents, more than anyone, who can benefit from this book, because there isn't really anything else on the market right now.

It's not going to scold you or scare you, it's pretty level-headed. It has its flaws or course, all books do, but it really opens your eyes to what's happening. It shows that there is hope, and that you can be an anchor for your daughter, to help her regain a sense of herself as she is, without feeling like you are hectoring her.

Of course, you'll be castigated by activists anyway and called a transphobes, because that's the world we live in now: read some of the one star reviews from people who obviously haven't read the book if you want to get an idea of what to expect. But someone has to stand up for the girls, and if professionals won't, if the online community won't, well it'll just have to be the parents, won't it?

Re: TWAM
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2021 »
Ah - I guess this incident is a candidate for the Irony #1 spot.

The trans liberation movement is in early days as a popular phenomenon. What odds the current media worship to excess becomes the sauce for a bitter backlash within a decade?

Such tactics have been used before.

Re: TWAM
« Reply #33 on: July 20, 2021 »
In the old days – that is, for thousands and thousands of years – we had better things to worry about, things which we STILL worry about.  Now we've got some ONE or other person demanding attention.  BAME this, transom windows that.  Anne Boleyn had six fingers on each hand AND six toes on each foot.  Did she complain?  No!  The Archbish had enough on his plate, anyway. 

If kneeling is the knee-jerk reaction to racism, what on earth will be the acceptable response to genderism?  A good kick up the fanny will do it, I'd say.  And I am speaking as an Englishman.  I am assuming these deserving few will have, or will have had, a fanny at some point in their sordid little lives.

I say:  Fuck 'em all, and let God sort them out!  He's been slacking off recently. 

sam

Re: TWAM
« Reply #34 on: July 20, 2021 »
Please don't make me regret calling this Free For All.

Re: TWAM
« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2021 »
I wish to apologise to Fanny Hill, Fanny Farmer, Fanny Craddock, and all other Fannys out there who have had to suffer enough without me entering into the thick of it. For those of you readers who are easily titillated, I direct you to The Janitor @ Urban Dictionary.

And now a word from our sponsor - Quantum Generics, with their new and improved Trinary™️.

Welcome back. If a person says s/he is non-binary, s/he is not a she or a he, but a singular 'they', requiring singular verbs, presumably. They is welcome to it.  But - what is the opposite of non-binary? Binary. If you are not non-binary, then you are binary. That itself is a binary choice, being non-binary. So a non-binary person operates on a binary system of choice.  Unless one is a quantum singularity, like Schrödinger's pussy. And - is a trans person binary? Can one be a trans non-binary?

In another interview (see earlier post), Christine Jorgensen said that transvestism is usually a heterosexual manifestation and has little to do with attraction to the same sex. Where does the notion of gender fit in here?

Whenever I read about the Stonewall incidents of late June 1969 (I arrived in NYC a week later), and transgender people are mentioned, I laugh scornfully. I don't think that the mostly effeminate lads considered themselves as women or girls. Why would they want to label themselves as something they were not? And we're not talking about 'ladyboys' here - that's something else, as are the Kinnar in India and the castrati and eunuchs of earlier times.

None of this should be treated flippantly, as one must respect foreign cultural traditions. What the huge danger now is that irrevocable acts are being treated as lifestyle choices, as if life were a menu card at the Miss Clairol Saloon.

Re: TWAM
« Reply #36 on: July 21, 2021 »
I don't know your age, david, but I rather hope this discussion may be one of the acceptable responses to 'genderism'.

Taking the knee lacks the emphasis of a raised fist, but a little irony goes a long way in the sports arena.

The only times I have had to resort to giving an actual kick up the fanny (in the American sense) have been in response to physical assault. I get that you are outraged, but perhaps not to quite that degree? Fortunately neither you or the admirable Ms. Jorgenson (or even possibly God) are obliged to wield the last word on this one, though your latest thoughts,

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"None of this should be treated flippantly, as one must respect foreign cultural traditions. What the huge danger now is that irrevocable acts are being treated as lifestyle choices, as if life were a menu card at the Miss Clairol Saloon."

ring with clarity. It's how you got there that concerns me rather. It's nice to agree, but not always the best idea to paper over the cracks.

The transmogrification of Stonewall as an institution is also interesting and I might ponder on it a bit before wading in.


Chiefly though, I am, I think, part of a native tradition. I experience both the ancient potential and actual problems of childbearing and the ancient problems of not fitting a male/female image. The modern problems of being a logically inclined woman really take the biscuit though.

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" If you are not non-binary, then you are binary."

This statement is not affirmable. In simple analogy my enemy's enemy might be my enemy, friend or have no very particular relevance to me. Here we have been questioning the relevance of 'binaryism' while having this here conversation. Though Schrodinger's cat may be moot Aristotle has surely passed away.

I am interested in people not worrying so much about what they look like. I'm making suggestions as to the powers and interests of the advertising world in deliberately promoting fear of gender non-conformity, and shallow teaching methods inadvertently doing the same. You have a lot of questions. Who are you asking?

Re: TWAM
« Reply #37 on: July 23, 2021 »
I shall be 73 in a month.

Other than in quantum science, all things are binary: one either takes it or rejects it. To choose amongst A B or C, the choice becomes a set of choices BETWEEN, not amongst, A and any other choice. After that choice, there may be another required, if not-A was the first choice.

If you have ever consulted the I Ching using the traditional stick-sorting method, you will actually experience this as an integral part of the decision-making process. You become a living component of choice.

Is this aleatory?? Aha! I have crossed the Rubicon, right where it enters the Adriatic between Rimini and Cesena. It is a mere stream, barely a rivulet, and a touristy bridge leads one to the decision that crossing on foot is infinitely more symbolic and fun.

If the I Ching is aleatory, then so are all the wonders of this great life.

Humbug

  • London's hard-boiled black'n'white sweetie
Re: TWAM
« Reply #38 on: July 23, 2021 »
I am 3.

I fink we may av scored snake eyes wiv this bloke tho. He binges on words that mean vagina but are a bit ruder, if not quite the C word, makin passin reference ter matters ov racism in a derogatory by the way, and then he comes over all pieous.

If I were lookin fer the Pope I would try the Vatican or Avignon.

Re: TWAM
« Reply #39 on: July 24, 2021 »
Cheers Humbug for trying to clear the air.

Perhaps what my rabbit alter-ego is trying to say is that the tone of the conversation could be improved if instead of pontificating in apparent irritation we could explore ideas without going off on quite so many tangents.

I will recap a bit to try and achieve this. One of the things I said earlier is that the dichotomy between trans-critical feminists and feminist-critical trans activists has been widened by the unfortunate nature of the internet, and social media in particular, as a medium that makes it easier to separate into cliques and talk in ways that reinforce clans based on belief systems.

Logic then tends to be subordinate. On some level having a debate on the nature, limitations and potential of logic is a prerequisite for any further definitive discussion of anything. However, while the definition of a binary system as it may relate to logic is essentially relevant to a discussion of whether 'gender' is binary or otherwise, I think the I Ching is beyond the scope of this particular thread.

Quantum phenomena are probably not beyond the pale - uncertainty is a big part of the matter in hand. I get the feeling you believe gender is susceptible to an either/or approach, david, but if so I respectfully suggest you might need to think further. Such a binary holds no place for hermaphodite/intersex identity - an issue which you yourself have raised as relevant. I think we have a system that can only be considered logically as either a spectrum or some kind of multiplicity, whether on an m/f/x basis or something more complex.