Author Topic: What fresh hell is this

Manfred Mann

  • not really
What fresh hell is this
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2022 »
I don't normally use the names of living people. Apologies to the real MM, but I didn't see as I had a choice in the matter.

Oh, and it's *deuce*

Now then.

Billy Bragg is a wanker
Quote from: Endpress
I don’t really understand what Billy Bragg is saying. It seems to me that this whole thing boils down to “do you accept that trans ideology means collateral damage occurs and who are you more bothered about it affecting?” The mealy mouthed refusal to accept the collateral damage seems so disingenuous and we should welcome those who highlight and try to tackle the nitty gritty issues of this ideology rather than those who wax lyrical about being kind and don’t raise the problems because otherwise your words kill. I’m not interested in what a celebrity or politician has to say unless they talk to the blunt realities of what’s going on here. Nicola sturgeon I’m looking at you – just say what collateral damage is more acceptable to you, stop pretending it doesn’t exist.

Collateral damage to young people who might calm their dysphoria by long term therapy (that doesn’t exist) instead of harming their bodies in the short and long term, that kids/ people will die by their own hands if they can’t trans as quickly as possible, that women will die / be harmed by predatory men (of whatever persuasion) who use trans as a perverse entry pass to “safe” single sex spaces, that the end point of trans ideology will ensure data collection and allocation of scant sex based resources won’t occur and women be harmed as a result of that, that denying the reality of sex based experience will harm women versus that rejecting sex based experience will make trans people feel better and therefore less likely to self harm and that a society that labels people instead of accepting their dysphoria as fact means trans people will be victimised and harmed.

JK is an expert communicator. She is clear as day in all she says. Her refusal to STFU and accept, hide or minimise the inevitable collateral damage to this ideology for women but also trans people is brilliant.

Hospital refuses to operate after woman requests all-female care
Quote from: Datun
Quote from: Strangeways19
Have read the correspondence fully. She wanted all female care that she makes very clear. She says only with prior agreement will she want a male in her room. This is going to be pretty much impossible in such a busy environment.

The point is, that she could have asked for the moon on a stick, and they could have replied with well the moon is a little far away, and we're all out of sticks. But that's not what happened and it's irrelevant what she actually asked for, at this point.

Because the reason they didn't address her request was not because they were all out of sticks and the moon's a tad out of reach, it's because they didn't share her values. And cancelled the operation on that basis. And then compounded the whole thing, by actually writing that down in an email to her.

It's not about compromise, it's not about trying to accede a request with limited resources. It's about the reason why they said they would not countenance her request. It was because, and, again, they actually wrote this down, they didn't share her values.

But, as an aside, a sexual assault survivor asking for females to look after her intimate care subsequent to her surgery, is a perfectly normal request. Of course, people understand that it's not always possible to comply with it. But as a request, it's totally normal.

What's not normal is saying no on the basis that she wouldn't validate a man's feelings.


What fresh hell is this
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2022 »
Tories are NOT on the side of women
Quote from: OMG12
Quote from: RoomOfRequirement
I know the defence of Tories here often is 'at least they know what a woman is' - and they do.

But they use that knowledge of what a woman is to make our lives worse. Over 100 Tory MPs voted against a buffer zone on abortion clinics. They know we're adult human females, who can get pregnant, and they vote to allow us to be harassed because of that.

I'm also GC, and do not believe you can change sex. Gender - sure, I don't care how anyone wants to present or what they want to be called and am happy to oblige - but some things are separated on the basis of sex and should remain that way regardless of presentation.

That said, Tories are not on the side of women, and you need to he aware of that before voting for them based on this 1 issue.

There’s a massive difference between having policies that are not aimed specifically at women but because of the structure of society disproportionately affects them, and actively supporting ideologies which deny what a woman is, take away fundamental rights of dignity and safety for women, and create a situation where women are frightened to voice concerns.

It’s a witch hunt environment. It’s a way to control women and make them compromise themselves for the needs of others. They are not even allowed their own identity. I really don’t get how people can’t see how important this is, not just for today but for generations to come.

It’s not some frivolous 1st world problem. It’s about protecting over half the population from being told who they are allowed to be and what they must put up with. Don’t complain about stripping next to this biologically male individual: humiliated if you do, humiliated if you don’t. It’s not about the rights of trans people and keeping them safe. If it was, they would be fighting for third spaces. It’s about the subjugation of women. That single point is very decisive where I put my vote. Who are you to decide why I should vote one way or the other.

With the Tories it’s collateral damage. With Labour it’s a laser guided missile.

Would you vote conservative again?
Quote from: Walkaround
Pah. Just vote Lib Dem,* as they now inhabit the middle ground without being infiltrated by extremists. Both Conservative and Labour parties are being pulled apart by factions to the left, right and middle of their old ground - they have no consistent, logical ideology any more, so rapidly descend into infighting even when given a chance of power. Also, campaign against 2-party, first past the post politics, because that system is imploding in both the UK and US. 

Regardless, western capitalism is collapsing under the weight of its own short-sighted greed. Power and wealth is held in private hands, not in the hands of democratic countries, yet people still bizarrely wonder why the low tax, small state regimes they hanker after appear to be falling apart (because they expect to keep their profits to themselves, but simultaneously expect the state to provide the infrastructure they need, and healthy, educated workforces to exploit).
* See @RoyalCorgi's helpful link

What fresh hell is this
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2022 »
SNP MSPs will be whipped to vote in favour of gender recognition reforms
Quote from: WanOvaryKenobi
Are you arguing that trans people shouldn't be allowed to exist at all?

Nobody is debating whether or not someone exists. You can disagree with people and they still exist. Flat earthers exist. Creationists exist. I do not believe that trans women are literally women, but they still exist.

We are debating whether your internal sense of self and belief in a particular ideology that prioritises feelings over material bodily reality is enough to reorient society.

Women survivors of male violence brand MSPs refusal to hear them a 'kick in the teeth' - Gina Davidson
A total of five women offered to speak in a private session to the Scottish Parliament’s Equalities Committee after hearing concerns about protecting women’s single sex spaces, such as rape crisis centres and domestic violence refuges, dismissed by other people invited to give evidence about the government’s planned reforms.

However their request was rejected by the committee, with the convenor, SNP MSP Joe FitzPatrick, telling them they had no time to see them and to put their objections in writing.

The committee had held other private sessions including with transgender people, and parents of transgender children.

What fresh hell is this
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2022 »
Why the next wave of feminism is conservative
Good article by Louise Perry in The Spectator. I would only disagree with her that Terfs are "very clearly victorious." We (I'm using 'we' although like Dave Chappelle I'm only Team Terf) still have a long way to go. Baby.

Penny's been busy.

Scottish Labour is now a branch office of Stonewall - Tom Harris
Trans ideology cannot flourish in an environment of open, honest, tolerant debate, and so in constituencies across the country, such debate is simply not allowed...

Labour, north and south of the border, is happy to bask in its own sense of self-righteousness, utterly relaxed about the prospect of “woman” being redefined as whatever a man imagines one to be.

Webchat with Keir Starmer & Bridget Phillipson
Quote from: nilsmousehammer
Drives me nuts seeing the level of thoughtful, passionate engagement of women on these threads and the total lack of engagement from the politicians who will only come here if HQ protect them and handpick the least scary questions for aides to write answers to in advance.

What fresh hell is this
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2022 »
Underappreciated tweet award goes to:

Of course it should be "as the train started to depart the station", but that's the least of our grammar worries here.

. . .

Rosie Duffield v Billy Bragg

. . .

Dr. Greta Bauer v reality

What fresh hell is this
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2022 »
Once more for the people in the back:
Trans ideology cannot flourish in an environment of open, honest, tolerant debate, and so in constituencies across the country, such debate is simply not allowed.

I was freshly reminded of the silencing treatment yesterday at Daily Kos (last visited here):

'403' appears to be the way they bin things.

It was definitely not the kind of diary you normally see over there. As you can tell from the URL, the thrust of it was that children should not be given puberty blockers or medical procedures to help them transition: that such interventions should be saved for adults. Discussion on this matter is verboten, even when the author, as in this case, was otherwise completely on board with gender ideologists.

As I found out for myself at Yacf and the CTC's forum, this is all they've got:

What fresh hell is this
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2022 »
Association of Clinical Psychologists statement on Cass Review
Quote from: nilsmousehammer
It is going to have to be acknowledged by society and particularly by government that an ideology that has a fundamental belief that reality is created by choice, preference and emotion, and by pretending unwanted facts and bits of reality don't exist, and then trying to force everyone else to pretend this is the truth too (while screaming at, threatening and trying to silence anyone who will not indulge this) ..... pretty much renders anyone speaking from that ideology as not someone you can engage with or expect to make any sense on anything.

By all means people should have the personal freedom to enact whatever beliefs they like - but it is incompatible with decision making, policy making, safeguarding and any other matters affecting others. It is incapable of impartiality or coping with other people's perspectives, experience or with reality.

Has Keir reached the summit?
Quote from: SudocremOnEverything
We should have a proper, open, decent, respectful discussion about this'


'I think that the labour party has had that discussion and that’s a very very good thing'…

So here we have Shroedinger's Starmer's Cat. Where a topic should be discussed and in the same breath, has BEEN discussed. Amazing doublespeak.

I think it’s more jam tomorrow, jam yesterday, but never jam today.

it should be discussed, it’s been discussed. But it’s never currently being discussed.

Butterflies & Wheels
Rowling’s greatest sin was to expose the lie of “no conflict” between trans “rights” and women’s rights. What little she said about trans identified males was actually very tolerant and compassionate (more so than I would be inclined to be). Most of her statements have been about protecting the rights, safety and dignity of girls and women. Her need to voice her concern showed that she believed that trans demands were a danger to girls and women. She was right to so believe. It is instructive that this was reflexively understood by trans activists as being “anti-trans.” The careful failure to quote exactly what was transphobic about what she actually said is also telling. It would have exposed the fact that what Rowling was saying was reasonable and correct. Better to hide her actual words under your own preferred spin than to give wider exposure to her completely logical, pro-woman position. To rephrase Lewis’s Law, the response to any statement in support of protecting women’s rights against trans demands demonstrates the very need for those rights.

Do you ever wonder, what else have I been horribly wrong on all this time?
Quote from: OldGardinia
When I was younger I was aware of the trope of Left Wing people becoming Conservative when they were older and I was determined that I myself wouldn't lose my values that way. What caught me off-guard was not that my values changed but that my perception of what actually worked did. I still believe most of what I used to in terms of morality and I'm still politically active. But I've had some strong shifts in how I apply that morality and become a lot more open to other people's viewpoints on how to achieve those things. I call myself Right Wing these days, without shame. Because whilst there's ignorance and bigotry in all large groups I find no more in the Right than the Left. And frankly the Right are easier to have a conversation with typically. They don't try to control language so much.....

There's a scene in Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" (and if the name Ayn Rand suddenly causes an instinctive shut down / rejection of what I'm saying but you've never read her work, ask yourself where that instinct came from), where a character says we've moved from an "aristocracy of money" to an "aristocracy of pull". I didn't understand that when I first read it. What did she mean? What was more powerful than money? But I get it now. It's about having the right people in the right place and the right favours. When you're rich enough money is no longer something you require and becomes a tool to manage others. Look at the recent kerfuffle with KiwiFarms. It's broken no laws. It's very hands off by policy the people it discusses. No legal authorities were ever approached about the supposed "threat to life". It was used purely for reputational purposes and the site was brought down by one trans person in one company reaching out to a trans person at another company who was their friend. Similarly it was subject to Denial of Service attacks for weeks openly condoned and celebrated by the trans streamer Keffels. Denial of Service attacks are a crime, and they used hacked PCs via spread malware. Someone(s) was paying for that. But there was never any investigation of it that I was aware of despite very public starting points presenting themselves (those openly advocating and celebrating them). The legal authorities were at no point in the loop with companies bringing down the farms nor did the sites enemies need them to be. It's no longer money (at least as a first cause) but "pull", that is to say networking and influence. This is demonstrable.

Which really, when you come down to it, is what a conspiracy is. You could say that a conspiracy would also be required to be secret by definition and you'd be right... except that so few people actually look outside their favoured sources or question them that you have a de facto secrecy even when something is in the open. And people only normally shake themselves out of that mindset when, like the OP, they run into something first hand which contradicts the prevailing narrative.

Even then, most people will just think "oh, they're ignorant / have lied about this one issue", turn the newspaper page to another story and assume that the next story is accurately reported.

That was a long post. [A lot longer than what I reprinted.] What I really mean to say is there's a tonne of lies and manipulation when you start actually questioning things; that doesn't mean every whacky conspiracy theory is true; also some people get REALLY aggressive when you question something in front of them. Almost as if they're afraid of you being right.

Quote from: EndlessTea
Although I have been savvy to this ideology for a long time, I now feel embarrassed to think how I would do the Buttergasp either inaudibly or out loud when people would say or do something morally ‘incorrect’ , for example if someone said they were thinking of voting Tory or for Brexit, or this time an old guy who had worked with disabled people all his life said “mentally handicapped” ~ gasp - didn’t he know we say ‘someone with learning disabilities’ now?

I think I am actually genuinely more tolerant. I am unlikely to dismiss the underlying point of what someone is trying to say because they don’t word it in a politically correct way now.

The thing you said about the left-wing media really resonates with me OP. Although I still have fundamentally left-wing beliefs, I am vehemently opposed to the wronging thoughts and ideas, the ‘correcting’ that the left are so fond of. It narrows the mind and disconnects us from what we truly think or believe, and gives our personal power away as we look for permission.

The reason people swallow all this crap when they consume only left-wing media, is because they have bypassed their own thinking. It’s a huge sacrifice in the name of misplaced confidence that you are one of the ‘right’ people on the ‘right side of history’.

Surprise surprise
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2022 »
The NYC Marathon's Non-Binary Winners Are All Blokes
Quote from: ProxyMusic
The NY Road Runners website says that the second, third, fourth and fifth place prize winners in the non-binary category are Zackary Harris, Alexander Edgemon, Kosta Kleyman and Christopher Di Nisio. AFAICT, these are all young white males. (They all seem to be American from very privileged backgrounds who've gone to elite universities too. Which is weird in an international event where competitors come from 91 different countries, and black Africans excel.)

Significantly, in its previous stories and its coverage today about the new non-binary category, the NY Times didn't feature any non-binary female runners. In fact, it didn't even mention any female non-binary runners. As if they are invisible or simply don't exist...

So it seems like the non-binary category is mainly being regarded and used as category to separate out white gay men from "regular" men and give them additional chances to win podium places and take home prize money - chances these guys wouldn't have in the bog standard men's category because their running times aren't anywhere near fast enough.

What fresh hell is this
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2022 »
Quote from: StellaAndCrow
Attempting to cancel Mrs Doubtfire

Interesting comment
"I remember an interview with Robin about the makeup for this movie, and how after seeing himself being characterized as a woman for the first time he told the makeup artist "gosh, I really look like a lady. Now make me pretty"

The artist told him " I already did, this is the best I can do", and Robin tells he was emotionally devastated because he suddenly felt ugly and unimportant. He realized that is what most aging women go through every day, and how acting in this movie challenged his views on women a lot. Powerful stuff, one of the best interviews he ever gave if you can find it."

The fun never ends
« Reply #29 on: November 18, 2022 »
It's a socially constructed vagina.

Your crotch isn't a North Carolina lunch counter.

It must be true because of all the books in the background.

Women shouldn't try and gatekeep periods. Apparently
(Thread since deleted. This is what kicked it off.)
Quote from: ReneBumsWombats
Quote from: Onnabugeisha
Ah, a lovely morning pile of more proof of my claims.

We’ve got misquoting, misrepresentation, we’ve got the cognitive gymnastics of simultaneously claiming cis-women do not exist while being offended on behalf of cis-women, we’ve got rampant intolerance as shown through the usual insults towards a different belief system & anyone who doesn’t join in with your intolerance.

Yep, this thread is a perfect example of exactly the kind of human beings you are.

I thought your work here was done? Ffs, flounce or don't flounce, but don't claim a coup de grâce and then keep coming back to complain that everyone's still alive. That's not how it works.

By the way, how did the Japanese know who was an Onna Bugeisha? They did need to know because they were given a different style of weapon to account for their different build to male warriors. How did they work it out?

TIMs hilariously realize they don't know what a woman is without sex or stereotypes
Quote from: Lezbhonest
This is rich. Logically he knows that it’s all convoluted and that trans ideology can’t withstand even the barest application of logic, but his emotions (and let’s be real… his fetish) are telling him that it has to work, and so he continues to try and squeeze the square peg in the circular hole, over and over again.