What fresh hell is this

[Dorothy Parker]

Men hitting women for sport

Meanwhile, men on social media are having a field day slagging off JKR and writing long posts about DSDs and telling women how complicated it is. It's not fucking complicated. It's men hitting women for sport.

To be fair, it's not unusual for men to assume that their 24hr awareness of a topic trumps any research and writing that women may have been doing and discussing for decades. It's women's fault for having high, squeaky voices and possibly (less sure about this) typing in hidden away areas like Mumsnet and in high, squeaky ways.

It's not just men, but they make the squeakiest mice.

https://twitter.com/Slatzism/status/1819427537740558848

https://x.com/hoovlet/status/1819148138109960199

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1816467982270521454.html

https://www.realityslaststand.com/p/the-dystopian-history-of-sex-testing

https://quillette.com/2024/08/03/xy-athletes-in-womens-olympic-boxing-paris-2024-controversy-explained-khelif-yu-ting/

Spoiler

Yes.

[close]

[Dorothy Parker]

Male people shouldn't be in female sport.

"Their passports say female!"

Male people shouldn't be in female sport.

"They once wore pink!"

Male people shouldn't be in female sport.

"They've been fighting women for years!"

Male people shouldn't be in female sport.

"Michael Phelps! Michael Jordan! Ronnie Coleman! Great athletes have physical advantages!"

Male people shouldn't be in female sport.

"They're women with male chromosomes and male levels of testosterone, like Caster Semenya!"

Male people shouldn't be in female sport.

"We've all got testosterone!"

Male people shouldn't be in female sports.

"You're obsessed with femininity!"

Male people shouldn't be in female sport.

"They're not trans!"

Male people shouldn't be in female sport.

"Shut up you ugly man looking Nazi bigot, who cut your hair, bet you did it, you're a stupid moron who should get a life, or just do the world a favour stick your head in the oven."

Male people shouldn't be in female sport.

Where to find reputable sources re boxing controversy

I think the difficulty with finding intellectually rigorous and logical arguments going the other way is that there aren't any. I don't mean that flippantly. Sound discussion about any topic has to come from an agreed, evidenced base.

The basis of the argument here is that Males should not compete against Females because of biological differences based on their sex. Males, at population level, are bigger, stronger, faster etc than females.

If working from that basis, those arguing that males should compete against females need to state why...But instead they attempt to subvert the basis itself and that makes all argument pointless.

My teen DD has been telling me about the SM obsession with 'last thursday-ism' where the 'gotcha' is 'you can't prove that the world wasn't created last thursday cos we might all just be in a simulation or thoughts have been put in our heads'. Well OK, yes. We might all be living in the Matrix, or the world might actually be ruled by mice or dolphins.

But we can't create policy and maintain a society if any rational argument is simply countered by whataboutery.

Sex is binary and biology does have an effect on males and females. No scientifically correct and intellectually rigorous argument against that is ever made.

This is an actual person you are talking about

Maybe just think about human beings, it's very sad how much hate and cruelty there is

I think every day about how much hate and cruelty and disempowerment and marginalisation and abuse and dehumanisation happens to female people every day all over the world and it breaks my fucking heart.

I simply do not have enough left to care very much about a boy who had a sad and traumatic discovery about his biological sex a long time ago and now knowingly enters female-only sports because he, his trainers and his government believe him getting his chance to win is more important than that the less interesting female people should have sports classes in which they can compete that are suitable for their physical capabilities.

https://twitter.com/babybeginner/status/1820021224438714470

Olympic car crash

From what I gather... a campaign group successfully convinced the IOC in the late 90s to prioritise inclusion. Because of what they position was the human rights violation of these male athletes with DSDs suffering indignities during testing and the outcomes of that testing.

So in the late 90s they removed testing. 82% of female athletes wanted testing to remain.

Then in early 00s they allowed male people who surgically removed their testes to compete in female competition. Because once you allow one group of male people in, you must equally allow the other in or you are discriminating against transgender people.

Then in 2015, a campaign group including Ivy/Mckinnon and Harper, using Harper’s flawed study (see nequals8.com) convinces the IOC that it is unfair discrimination to exclude any male with a transgender identity describing themselves as a woman. The IOC changes the policy to allow them.

Then came the Rio trio in the female 800m and we start to see the testosterone suppression of the male people with DSDs come in. Semenya takes this to court in 2019. Appealed 2020. The evidence presented confirmed 5ARD and testosterone of 21 nmol/L.

2020 Tokyo games held in 2021 was the testosterone suppressed games. Hubbard, a late 40 something male in female event where next youngest was probably a decade and a half younger, shines light on the issue.

The IOC reacts by announcing a review. The new guidelines released Nov 2021 devolve responsibility for policy to each discipline’s international federation.

The announcement by Budgett from IOC was along the line of ‘we know it is unfair to include male people with pubertal advantage, but inclusion at all costs is our aim.’

That is where we are now.

Can facts take back the moment?

[Dorothy Parker]

You can lead a TRA to data but you can't make them think.

https://www.theparadoxinstitute.com/read/what-are-sexes
https://www.theparadoxinstitute.com/read/sex-development-charts

. . .

I’m Not Transphobic, You Are Normaphobic

It seems to me that the real problem is not transphobia, but normaphobia, an irrational fear of biologic norms, human development and reproduction and the very evolution that got us to where we are today.

I realized "transphobia" was suddenly just projection. These people have an uncontrollable fear of their sex, and they project that fear into others. I doubt you or I have a fear of someone claiming to be the wrong sex, it’s like fearing that someone might be afraid of heights. It doesn't even cross my mind as a category of possible mental states.

. . .

Trigger warning if you have geliophobia:
https://twitter.com/marycatedelvey/status/1820176121075572782

[Dorothy Parker]

Acts of aggression

At the centre of the storm is the fake human rights category of ‘gender identity’. Gender identity is not a minority protection category, it is the erasure of protection.

Gender identity is an attempt to erase the ‘woman problem’ everywhere with as little fuss as possible. By the ‘woman problem’, I mean the obligations that the Western state has been forced to recognise and protect of female vulnerability, based largely in the female reproductive path. The state has amassed obligations to females over two hundred years of, sometimes militant, feminism. Gender identity is not ‘feminism gone too far’, gender identity is feminism purchased and put on the fire to warm the hearts of the worst of men of both political sides.

Some of those men physically overpower women in sport, others like to laugh at the show and blame the crazy cat women while farming engagement at the outrage on their huge social media platforms. Gender identity is useful to the left and the right...

The problem for the progressive movement is, if sex exists in sport, then sex exists in other places, and therefore governments and capital may have to recognise male pattern violence, reproductive vulnerability, and sex trafficking, as things that women pay their government to protect them from in material ways. Historically government on the left or right have not been enthusiastic to defend women and girls from men. It is a really hard thing to do.

Today, we see a storm. In response to the storm the IOC has made a statement saying that after the games they will have a little think. Tomorrow, they all hope people will forget what we saw, and we can start to talk about ‘nuance’ and protecting the mental health of men who need to punch women to affirm their gender identity.

If a gender-affirming punch in the face at the Olympics is your line, your line has already been pushed too far.

https://www.spectator.com.au/2024/08/acts-of-aggression/

https://x.com/msediewyatt/status/1820234668731720147

Morning fellow #xx chromosome bigots. These articles are exactly three years apart. Three years ago I thought that when people saw this, they would understand the damage of erasing sex in law, but this is what I have learned in three years

First! This is not happening!Governments are not really erasing sex categories in law,
and even if they are
women are not being left unprotected,
and even if they are
trans identified males are no threat to women,
and even if they are
Women have to learn to adjust to

protect the mental health of the special men, because these men don’t have bad motives,
And even if they do,
women have to take a hit for the greater progressive good, because we are making the world better.
And even if we are not
At least you won’t be on the wrong side

[This is almost like a prose poem - Ed.]

If you comply you won’t get called the bad names and your friends will know you are a good person
And even if you are not,
You will look like a good person and that’s what’s important, because you can accuse others of not understanding science and social science

And even if they do understand science and social science better than you, you will be part of the new progressive movement with the new science and the new social science. The new progressive movement is making our society better and women won’t need  protections.

Because the progressives are training men out of their toxic masculinity and the government is going to erase domestic violence in a generation with the new social science, and the children will become their true selves with the new medical science and women won’t need to win

at sport because the men need women’s sport to validate their true self and that’s what is important. If you don’t believe this, you are definitely a transphobe and almost certainly a racist and probably a right wing extremist, and obviously a victim of Russian propaganda.

I have learned that if you want to be on the right side of history, you need to listen to the richest and most powerful people on the planet because they are always right about everything.

The thing is that IOC very deliberately avoided taking responsibility in this particular area by delegating the creation of policy for eligibility in women’s sport to the various regulatory bodies for each sport. And as a result, many of the sporting regulatory bodies have developed and implemented science-based eligibility criteria for their sports (including the IBA) and now it seems that IOC don’t like this development because it is at odds with their stated preference for identity-based eligibility.

https://x.com/HJoyceGender/status/1820742205872431578
Link to an apologetic post about Caster Semenya

Meme du jour:


A gold medal in chaos
For the record, I don't care about boxing. At all. I care about the truth.

A reminder of why I've posted so much about this stuff:
It's a war on reality, and I can't do it anywhere else, my old haunts (which I've been banned from anyway for going against the grain) and many other public spaces being run by people who are captured by the ideology and/or terrified of opinions different to their own, not to mention their aversion to actual facts. There's the Mumsnet feminism board, of course, but I rather think they've got this covered.

It's perversely fascinating to be living through a time of mass delusion.

Finally, maybe, as I keep adding things:
https://x.com/thepeacepoet99/status/1820639164490272958

I have an open ended question for you all and I would like to hear your thoughts based on your interpretation of this question:

What makes someone trans?

Finally not finally:
https://x.com/TomBonjour5/status/1820883800299336014

“When our children tell us who they are, it is our job as grown-ups to listen and to believe them..."
When adults say things like this they are telling us who they are, and it's not good.

. . .

https://x.com/TeslaExplained/status/1820947891428716711

. . .

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1821167422721630473

For the record, bombarding me with pictures of athletic women to ‘teach’ me that women don’t all look like Barbie is like spamming me with pics of differently-shaped potatoes to prove rocks are edible. I can still see the difference and you look frankly bonkers.

[Dorothy Parker]

Yes, I do hope to turn the boxing channel off soon. Meanwhile...

Wow, I have really become radicalized in the sense that I think Dr. Hilton is fabulous as a calm, unthreatening speaker of biological truth, but I also find I resent her qualification that Sex Matters to just a few very limited spheres such as (her examples) competitive sports and domestic violence shelters. She gives the old “it’s none of my business how the person next to me at work dresses and identifies”.

I used to be in this camp as well, but after three years on Ovarit and being exposed to Operation Let Them Speak, I now think of transdressing as offensive womanface, with a large dose of non-consensual participation in someone’s kink. I reject the view that women MIGHT possibly be entitled to some tiny tiny spheres with our own boundaries, but otherwise it is Be Kind all the way down. She also goes out of her way, several times, to say that this isn’t on the athletes - this is all a failure of sporting organizations/ federations. Sort of a “don’t bully the men” attitude. Uh no. These athletes are male, they know they are male, and they are choosing to beat up women. They deserve whatever blowback they’ve received, and more.

She also decries those who comment on the physical appearance of the athletes, notes that the issue isn’t how well someone may or may not “pass”. That’s true, in as far as it goes, but clearly she knows that the reason people are pointing out these men’s appearances is that the narrative is a firehouse [firehose? - Ed.] of “they’re women they’re women they’re women” and people are having the natural reaction of “Are you freaking kidding me - look at XYZ.” It is the logical way for people to communicate that they are being fed a lie, and they aren’t buying it. Which is really the whole point of why this ideology is so toxic and destructive. It’s all a lie, and demanding that people accept the lie is deeply corrosive at a societal level, not to mention the real and immediate impact on the safety, privacy, and dignity of women.

It is enraging that not only are Dr. Hilton’s supremely sensible and empirical assessments virtually [absent] from the MSM and the framework of the IOC, but also that it comes with a sort of groveling mindset - “I promise to bend the knee everywhere else, but in this narrow instance, can we use objective reality?”

BBC finally acknowledges something may be amiss in Olympics women's boxing

Maybe the BBC has partially read the room but really a science correspondent instead of a [Gender & Identity] one should have been given that task. Since it relates to that pesky science.

https://twitter.com/FondOfBeetles/status/1821903707635618276
Pesky science

https://x.com/hrw/status/1821982171906588880
Men's Rights Watch

we should be under no illusion that the confusion and toxicity we are seeing is a direct result of trans ideology, in particular their manipulation of language.

[Dorothy Parker]

Olympic Boxer names J K Rowling in lawsuit for cyberbullying

Sport is not just about mental and physical prowess, but about integrity and sportsmanship. Anyone who enters a competition knowing they have a grossly unfair advantage - even without firm rules in place - has no integrity at all.

This is typical eustress.

Eustress is the opposite of distress. You get away with so much that you become euphoric, then over confident that you can get away with more and more, and we have all seen it! Khalif won a gold medal, was paraded about on the shoulders of the trainers, has adulation and support from all around the world and is feted as not just an Olympic champion, but some kind of LGBTQ+++ hero and feminist icon, DESPITE everything, so probably thinks this will be easy....

NYT columnist refuses to accept Cass Review findings

accepting your one and only body — rather than waging an unending war on your flesh and the world’s perceptions — is the best possible outcome for every patient who turns up at a gender clinic. It is truly remarkable that saying so has become fraught at all.

https://old.reddit.com/r/BlockedAndReported/comments/1er92j5/nyt_how_a_supposedly_scientific_report_became_a/

It's telling that these "critics" coming out of the woodwork to tear into the Cass report can only apply their newfound overnight scientific expertise to nitpicking minor aspects of Cass and her teams' work, yet there was nary a peep when Jason Rafferty's 2018 AAP guidelines on "gender affirming care" misrepresented most of the studies cited.

Not a word when studies "showing the efficacy" of "gender affirming care" failed to control for basic confounding variables like psychotherapy and antidepressants.

Not even a whisper when GIDS failed to replicate the "gold standard" Dutch studies and in fact showed either no change in mental health outcomes or slightly worse mental health outcomes by some metrics.

Yet suddenly they are seasoned experts on methodology and scientific standards, and they're here to save the kids from that bigoted renowned pediatrician and her team which found the exact same thing that every other systematic review ever commissioned has found.

Equating these people to flat earthers in their ignorance and denial of basic scientific understanding isn't even fair to flat earthers. At least humans at one point in history believed that the earth was indeed flat. Never in human history has there been any misconceptions about what a male and female are or that one can become the other.

In a parallel universe, it’s the American right that followed the lead of homophobic conservative Iran and started forcing gay teens to inject blockers and have sex change surgeries as way to “straighten” them. In that scenario, progressives would have had no problem seeing through the madness. The Daily Show would have produced hilarious segments tearing to pieces the junk science and demented logic behind the practice of causing irreversible body harm to vulnerable, largely gay and autistic, teens.

But alas, after securing gay marriage victory Stonewall and HRC saw their key objectives realised and their fundraising coffers run dry. They needed to continue paying all those big salaries so pivoted to trans rights as a way to fill them. But by then post-modernist thinking (founded by child molesters who saw casting reality, morality and objectivity as just “narratives” in order to normalise their depravity) had marinated in Academia long enough that it was an over-educated into imbecility elite that took the reins of the trans cause laundering in their deranged beliefs in gender souls and the unquestionable virtue of child sex change. Since these people were nominally “progressive”, the liberal worlds of media, government and academia swallowed their insane claims, believing them to be - or pretending to believe they were - true science. Ever since, it’s just been a very sad and depressing illustration of the sunk cost fallacy.

For me, the reason this has fascinated/frustrated me for almost a decade is that the underlying logic is stupid, and built on blackmail and sophistry to cover up the fact that there's nothing there. It is so stupid that people have to pretend that we never actually knew what a woman/man was.

Forget medicalization, forget women's sports, forget bathrooms - the people who laughed at flat earthers, creationists and other nonsense buy into this cartesian dualism that posits that there is an internal “real self” (mind? soul? essence?) that can be at odds with the physical body.

Statement on the gender critical movement and the far right

I love the way they never make petitions to get the paraphiliacs out of their midst. they just double down and blame everyone else.

But the "gc movement"? It needs to show moral fiber or be discredited forever. Unrepentant sinners they are!

It's the funding, stupid

Gluing the “T” to the LGB allowed for an easy transition into a new civil rights movement, using the same language and mantras of “born this way” and “accepting people as they are,” as well as a need to fight for “equal rights” on this basis.

Indeed, it was the Democrats and Democrat-adjacent organizations that were looking for a new way to galvanize their base and solicit funding, and Republicans were frankly the last to catch on.

[Dorothy Parker]

Australian court rules in landmark case that asked 'what is a woman'?

A transgender woman from Australia has won a discrimination case against a women-only social media app, after she was denied access on the basis of being male.

FTFY

https://twitter.com/JournalismSEEN/status/1826857970652664267
Pointing out BBC-typical flaws

https://x.com/salltweets/status/1826762817372127508

Unfortunately, we got the judgement we anticipated.

The fight for women’s rights continues.

https://twitter.com/WomenReadWomen/status/1826772265599730128

Get this man on the TV. On the radio. Get him interviewed everywhere. Shine all the sunlight possible on this boundary-transgressing man so that everyone sees him and hears him and makes their own mind up about this ludicrous judgment.

https://twitter.com/RachaelWongAus/status/1826887268977836283


https://www.womensforumaustralia.org/tickle_v_giggle_womens_rights_on_trial

The “winner” of this case has got legal recognition & a bit of cash.

But everyone with integrity & a grasp of reality knows the truth of the matter.

"Gender identity legislation leaves women with no enforceable boundaries against any man."

The outcome reveals the intended purpose of the legislation.

https://twitter.com/SenatorClaire/status/1826766854268002313

Today’s judgement in Giggle v Tickle confirms that women in Australia have no legal rights to single-sex spaces and services.

The Sex Discrimination Act which is supposed to protect women and girls is now a tool to punish women trying to offer female-only spaces.

Tickle v Giggle decision

In court the judge can only apply the law. The law enables people to change sex. Therefore it is possible to change sex. You can change your sex in law. The hope can only be that cases like this show that the law needs to be changed.

Sorry to be an arse about it, but I think we really need to resist using the language we’ve been ordered to use. The law categorically does not allow anyone to change sex because such an act is impossible. The law can only go so far as allowing all records pertaining to sex to be changed. If absolutely necessary I will concede that one’s legal sex can be changed. But not the actual sex. I can no more accept one’s actual sex changes than I can accept that the sun revolves around the earth. (Though, tbf, there is more compelling evidence for a geocentric universe than one in which males can become females.)

@moleatthedoor

https://twitter.com/DreyfusJames/status/1826938395228045463

What you couldn’t have, you chose to destroy.

https://twitter.com/amnesty/status/1826982698226737303
Note the Community Note

https://twitter.com/Brig_333/status/1827003928988258623
Fixed
To be fair - something Amnesty doesn't deserve - I assume they used that image because it's how the app looks(? I haven't seen it). It's still a very sneaky thing to do.

https://twitter.com/radicalGenX71/status/1827045559514894551
Yuck

. . .

[AIBU] To think the world has gone fucking mad
Ah, Bromptotoo. I thought that username sounded familiar. This is the guy who also thought ""the spit/swallow question" should be on the school curriculum.

[Dorothy Parker]

More Giggle/Tickle:

You couldn't ask for a more articulate, inspirational woman to fight this battle.

“It’s possible to change a law. It’s not possible to change sex.”

. . .

‘Demure and mindful’ - oh great.

What's interesting is that the BBC article, in an effort to virtue signal that they believe that TWAW, have tied themselves in knots obfuscating the notion that a male in a dress and make-up might not look demure, by pretending that they think it might not be a joke, as if they didn't clock that Lebron isn't actually the dainty creature they claim to be.

They even had to quote Lebron explaining that it's a joke because the BBC didn't want to risk accusations of transphobia by laughing at the joke without first checking with the source that it was intended as a joke before they laugh at it.

And then, so as not to focus on the juxtaposition of Lebron's presentation with their self-description of said presentation (in case they insinuated anything offensive to trans people), they instead veered off into some random commentary about social media trends and changing language.

Which I find much funnier than the actual joke.

[Dorothy Parker]

Trans activists monitoring mumsnet

I do wonder what the proper response would be to a person who one has accidentally seen kink photos of that one dearly wishes one could unsee, when one then encounters that person on a parenting forum?

I think that you gather your long skirts about you, cast your eyes to the heavens, compress your lips and pray for the strength to withstand this temptation to wrath.

NB: This seems to be the recommended course of action for those who hope for the smell of roses (also notes of honey, butter, roses, violets, frankincense, myrrh, jasmine, and lilies) when they die followed by a swift acknowledgement of sainthood. I'm uncertain what the rest of us do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odour_of_sanctity

. . .

What brought you here?
Many interesting replies. Don't miss this.

. . .

Beware 'CassieMaddox'. He's not what she seems.

[Dorothy Parker]

Elon Musk is a twat

I’m interested in the impact of hormones on decision making.

At a very basic level, I had varying degrees of rationality throughout my menstrual cycle. The PMS phase being especially objectively worse.

Now I’m in the reduced oestrogen phase, I can see how my nurturing arsedness has reduced significantly. When I was 30, I’d have been overly vigilant in looking after others, especially my children. I’d sacrifice myself easily and essentially without complaint to look after others.

I’m not like that now, much more able to be rational now the female hormones have reduced. I don’t think it’s just ageing, I think hormones play a role.

Given I don’t know what it’s like to have High T, I think it’s interesting to wonder whether making decisions about certain things are easier, even if they are riskier, By certain things, I think I mean business decisions, creative decisions, practical decisions, because I’d also hypothesise that High O women make way better decisions around caring for others, children and communities, than High T men

There’s probably a lovely symbiotic relationship that nature created